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A blue water sailer that can go in light winds

152K views 575 replies 61 participants last post by  GBurton 
#1 ·
Is there such a beast? I'm looking for a 30-36 ft cruiser that can also move in light winds. Local coastal sailing would probably be solo. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good full keel boat that has a little get up and go that doesn't cost a fortune? Cape Dory 28 was on my list, but I want more room. Allied Luders 33 is my front runner right now but on the expensive side. Allied Seawind was a little funky looking in the cabin front for my tastes and too slow in light winds. Downeaster 32 is a good honest boat, but too slow I fear. Apologies if this overlaps another thread. I'm ok with traditional lines or modern ones as long as they have some style.
 
#2 ·
I am going have to go with,
'there is no such animal'.
Light air performance, in a full keel design
would be a very rare combination. There are
some modern builds that combine up to date
underbodies with traditional looks, but they are
generally very spendy.
 
#3 ·
Lots of great choices out there. Here is just one. Cascade 36, designed by the late Robert Smith. While many were/are home finished, all have all-roving hand layup hulls. These are very stout boats, and fast as well.
Built from the 60's to current. Tens of thousands of ocean-crossing miles with many couples.
Picture attached of the local boat that won the previous Pacific Cup outright... beating out boats costing hundreds of thousands of $.
:cool:
 

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#4 ·
A good full keel boat that can go in light winds... hmm... why does it need to be a full keel boat? There are plenty of fin-keeled boats that are bluewater capable, and most do far better in light winds than a full keel boat will.

Since you asked for full keel... look for a HR Rasmus 35 or a Monsun 31, a Southern Cross 31 or 35 might also work well. The Elizabethan series of boats, the 30, 31, 33, might be good choices as well.
 
#5 ·
I could look at fin keel boats, though I think my partner in crime in this venture wants the security of a full keel with the rudder attached. Also, I my mooring is in a shallow bay. Am I wrong to think that the fin keel draws more water? I can be convinced to widen the search to include fin keels.

Thanks for suggestions. I'll definitely look at those boats.
 
#7 ·
There are boats that have a fin keel with a skeg-hung rudder, which gives you better performance than a full-keel boat but has more security than a spade-rudder equipped boat.
 
#8 ·
Not sure that you will find a full keel boat or even a long fin keel boat in that size range that will be good in light air. You may have to do the speed improvement with sail selection. We are using our asymmetric spinnaker a lot these days to have better speed in light winds. I suspect an AS and a Code Zero for close reaching would do the trick. Both can fitted with a snuffer or furler to make handling much easier.
 
#10 ·
Jomsviking, very cool boat, and fits the bill. Unfortunately I'm several $100,000 short on that perfect blend. Painful dreaming for us poor child rearing parents. Before I had put my sites into blue waters, I wanted an Alerion 33 or an e33, again way out of my price range, but I still visit the sites periodically. Will add the X yachts to my roaming.
 
#11 ·
"There are boats that have a fin keel with a skeg-hung rudder, which gives you better performance than a full-keel boat but has more security than a spade-rudder equipped boat."

Like my Caliber 33 (and the Caliber 35 it turned into in the 90's). Pretty good compared to a full keel boat but still a fairly heavy cruiser.
 
#12 ·
As a recent owner of HR 35 I can say that while it definitely is a great offshore boat, it is not very good in light winds. Meaning - it is not a "daysailing" vessel.

It could be a coastal cruiser, certainly, depending on what you plan to do. It is also not perfect for singlehanding since sail handling lines are not usually lead to the cockpit due to windshield design - so you must get out and go to the mast. On the other hand, the cockpit is very secure and convenient. And the boat sure looks beautiful while sailing :)
 
#25 ·
As a recent owner of HR 35 I can say that while it definitely is a great offshore boat, it is not very good in light winds. Meaning - it is not a "daysailing" vessel.
Try any of the Frer's design HRs, like the 34 and 36. Much faster in light air.
 
#16 ·
I know it's not exactly a full keel, but a substantial skeg and shallow draft makes the Tartan 34c a good choice. Sparkman, Stevens designed so she sails well and is capable of blue water with the proper upgrades. The design has been out of production for 35 years or so, but still a nice boat. With most boats of this vintage, the tankage will be small.
 
#18 ·
IMHO, light air sailing is more about good light air technique than it is about the boat's design, but it's generally nervewracking to sail in light air. If you're racing, it's worth the effort to concentrate so intensely for so long, because there's a "reward" if you're successful, but, if you're cruising, and you want to "get somewhere," then 1 1/2 kts per hour just isn't enough of a "reward" for most people to justify the effort, so they'd rather fire up the engine and get to their destination. I race a full keel boat occasionally, and our best chance of winning on that boat is always in light air. Some of the full keel boats, notably some of the Alberg designs, have large sail areas to help compensate for the weight and drag of a full keel, and that extra sail area means a lot in light air.
 
#19 ·
I don't doubt the seaworthiness of the full keel boats, but at the same time, I have a real hard time undertstanding the attraction to these as a "must have".... Full keel boats were designed at the time given material and stress constraints, not because it is some inherent "better / safer" design.

I don't see people looking to buy top dollar, 70's design quality cars, houses, planes, trains, gear, etc.... but for some reason, 50's to 60's epoch designs on the marine side are considered the cat's meow...???

If you plan on light air sailing, with an occassional heavy air sail, go for a safe design that works very well for the majority of the time, not for a mystical minority of "what if" scenario. In those situations, it's crew, not boat that make the difference.

I like the old Shannon, Albin, C. Dory, and Rustler boats to name a few, quite a bit, it's the nostalgia and the "feel", certainly not the sailing performance or ultimate comfort of "getting there" 6 hours later than the "other guys".

Best of luck on your purchase, and please do yourself a favor and sail as many desings as possible before biting the bullet, you may be suprized.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I don't doubt the seaworthiness of the full keel boats, but at the same time, I have a real hard time undertstanding the attraction to these as a "must have".... Full keel boats were designed at the time given material and stress constraints, not because it is some inherent "better / safer" design.
Not really. Hull shape was as much a "design to the rule" exercise than an advance in hydrodynamics. The reason people like those designs is they work really well and are (usually) more forgiving.

I don't see people looking to buy top dollar, 70's design quality cars, houses, planes, trains, gear, etc.... but for some reason, 50's to 60's epoch designs on the marine side are considered the cat's meow...???
Apples/oranges. New isn't necessarily "better" it's only "better" for what it's designed to do.

If you plan on light air sailing, with an occassional heavy air sail, go for a safe design that works very well for the majority of the time, not for a mystical minority of "what if" scenario. In those situations, it's crew, not boat that make the difference.
Rather not have to reach for the EPIRB.. if you know what I mean. That said, I'm not damning "new" designs en masse, but there's been some real problems with engineering not having caught up to the work of the designer/architect. No one goes looking for bad weather do they? But if you're caught out, do you really want a boat that beats you up? Or takes care of the crew?

I like the old Shannon, Albin, C. Dory, and Rustler boats to name a few, quite a bit, it's the nostalgia and the "feel", certainly not the sailing performance or ultimate comfort of "getting there" 6 hours later than the "other guys".
You can have your cake and eat it too. 9 kts in a stiff breeze, and noticably faster than most new boats in light airs. Note the lack of a fin keel and spade rudder.
:laugher


Best of luck on your purchase, and please do yourself a favor and sail as many desings as possible before biting the bullet, you may be suprized.
Yes, you may be ;)
 
#23 ·
It all depends of what you call a bluewater boat and weak winds.

If weak winds are 8, 10k...lots of boats, including for example the HR 372 or the new RM 1060. If weak winds are 5 or 6K, not so many, perhaps the Pogo 10.50, the Salona 37 or the Elan 380.

But as I said it depends of what you call a bluewater boat. All the above boats, if conveniently equipped will have no problem in crossing the pond, providing the right latitude and the right season.

Regards

Paulo
 
#27 ·
I sailed on a Southern Cross 31 for years, and now live/sail on a Downeaster 32. The 32 sails much better in light air (5kts with full canvas out in only 5-10kt winds) and handles *great* under power. We can back her up like you would a car! Really remarkable. Draws only 4'9"... we love her. The cockpit is comfy (much larger than on the southern cross we had). Another main difference is the turning radius... the Southern Cross was a doggg (3 boat lengths to turn, probably) while the DE 32 is quick to respond and turns in 1 boat length. Just got the boat this summer so have yet to do an off-shore stint on her, but we're confident she'll be safe and comfortable.
 
#29 ·
I don't know what SophiP has done to make this miracle happen, (perhaps redefine 'light air)' since my esperiences with the Downeast 32's is that the are nearly useless as sailboats in wind under 10-12 knots even with very large genoas. I also found them pretty poor in higher winds where they were not able to stand up to their sailplan and had a miserably rolly motions. In my mind these are neither decent light air boats, and pretty mediocre blue water boats. I would also suggest that they are anything but good single handers if your plan is to sail in a broad range of windspeeds.

Respectfully,
Jeff
 
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