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  #11  
Old 09-20-2010
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Ray,

In a nut shell, reducing draft will not help pointing in most cases, it does not matter the design or brand. The deeper the draft, the bigger the leading edge, which helps you to point.

Reducing draft will also need an increase in ballast. The longer keel can be lighter, because it levers from the pivot point farther down, but shallower, will need more ballast to counter the sails. Now, you could go lighter to a degree, but the sail area, or mast height would need to go shorter too! Think of the keel as a lever arm or a crow bar. The longer the crow bar, the easier to pull out a nail. Or in the case of a sail boat, the longer/deeper the keel, the less effect the sail area, wind has on it, so it can be lighter and still have the same effect as more wt but closer. Even then, I am not sure adding say 1000 lbs of ballast will always be as stable in a shorter keel and a deeper keel that weighs less.

You are in one of the danged if you do, danged if you do not!

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Last edited by blt2ski; 09-20-2010 at 07:07 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjanine View Post
Brian and Jorgen:

Thanks alot for excellent details about the C400. How much could Catalina reduce the draft while still maintaining good stability and pointing? How would they shorten the draft without reducing the keel weight?

Ray
I suspect they changed the hull slightly and flattened it. But I have not spoken with Gerry about it. I will tell you that it has a shallower bilge than mine. Might be a question for Gerry.

Brian
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  #13  
Old 09-21-2010
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How to reach Jerry Douglas of Catalina Yachts

Hi Brian:

I think talking to Jerry would be great. Do you have his email so I can ask him about the draft and how they can achieve a 5' draft or less?

Thanks,

Ray
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Old 09-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjanine View Post
Any other comments about this boat would be appreciated such as:

1. Type of mainsail (standard with jacklines or roller rulling with vertical battens)
2. Type of generator and KW (want to run airconditioner on the hook and when the temps get near 100 deg F.)
3. Type of bow thruster and Hp
4. Size of genoa (sail on Great South Bay in NY and winds are usually 10 to 15 knots all summer)
I just bought a 2005 400 last month, hull #328. Mine is a fin keel.

1. I was looking for in-mast furling. I've been very happy with it so far. However, if you are wanting to race, then I would get a standard main with a Stack-pack or equivalent. If you do that, and are buying a new boat, spring for a power winch on the cabin top.

2. No clue. I don't live in an area needing AC. A furnace OTOH, is something that I'll need to install.

3. No bow thruster and while it might be nice, I have no plans to install one. Part of me admits to not liking a large hole in the bow.

4. Mine has a 130%, high footed genoa. For 10-15 knots of wind it is a very comfortable and well performing sail. Again, if you want to race, then make sure you have a double headfoil so you can add a larger headsail for light air.

So far, I'm very happy with the boat. Contrary to CD, I don't think the 400 has much prop-walk at all. I have the standard 3 blade prop. Maybe it is a difference between the fin and wing keel?

If you are going to be buying a new boat in that price range, I would seriously look at both the 400 and the 445. The 445 is an amazing boat. It sails well, is beautiful, and the interior is one of the best designed I've ever seen. I think Catalina has really designed a great boat with the 445. However, I didn't buy one for two reasons:
1. I like master berth in the 400 better for my wife and I. We are both tall and not skinny. The aft berth is wonderful. The forward berth in the 445 is a bit tight for us.
2. The extra 4 feet makes the 445 harder to fit places here in the Puget Sound. I can find guest slips still with a 40 foot boat (really 40.5 but when asked I say 40). It gets much harder at 44 feet.

Many Catalina dealers would love to get a 445 in the water in their area for the regional boat shows. You could make a deal on a new 445 that could be about the same price as a 400 if you buy both new. Also, there are some "extras" on the 400 that are "standard" on the 445, reducing the price differential somewhat.

So for design, I'd go with the 445. For the cabin layout and size, I went with the 400 and couldn't be happier.
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  #15  
Old 09-22-2010
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Originally Posted by rayjanine View Post
Hi Brian:

I think talking to Jerry would be great. Do you have his email so I can ask him about the draft and how they can achieve a 5' draft or less?

Thanks,

Ray
Just call Gerry. He is very nice and welcomes calls. I bet he will tell you that it is DESIGNED as a 5. Designed versus reality may be two different things. Incidentally, we had a new Bene 40 come into our yard. THe hull shape on that boat looked exactly like the 400's to my naked eye. I have no doubt there are sublte differences, but from looking over it, it sure looked like the 400.

Incidentally, we did informally sail (I wouldn't call it a race) against a B40 on our C400. He ran faster than we did. However, not that much faster. And it was not fair because his was a brand new boat (and bottom), no inmast, and not decked out for cruising. We had a LOT of stuff on our boat, including the solar panels, tender and davits, and all of our LA junk and toys for kids, etc. I am not convinced teh B40 would be any/much faster than the 400.

You keep bringing up the draft on the boat. Curious why that is so critical to you? Are you in skinny water?

Brian
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  #16  
Old 09-22-2010
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  #17  
Old 09-23-2010
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Skinny water

Hi Brian,

Yes draft is a major issue where I sail out of. A 5' draft is fine but any more puts more time between tides for me to get out and sail and then get back into my canal. Thanks for the advice and the great notes about the boat. I will call Jerry.
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  #18  
Old 09-24-2010
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If 5' is your number, you need to avoid the 400 alltogether. Maybe teh 42 would work, but that might even be stretching it. I think you should turn your search to an IP or get used to waiting for tides. I choise to wait fo rtides. But very few large boats will have a 5' draft (true 5') and don't forget that is when she is dry, no crap on them, etc. Now fill tem with a bunch of junk, especially cruising gear, and you can easily tack on 3 inches or more.

The problem with the IP's, which I am not a fan of, if that tehy are crappy performers and don't point well and do not back well. Make my boat look like she backs on rails. Any other comperable boat will easily exceed teh 5' draft with many of the better boats approaching 7. Maybe you should also consider a catamaran, if you can fit it. But if you need 5', I would avoid the 400 alltogether. You could probably get a used IP in the 300's that is failry new and in the 40' range. Not sure what other choices there really are.

Brian
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Old 06-22-2011
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Phrf

I'm looking to buy a C-400 and am curious about what changed in 2006.

the way I read this the wing keel changed on hull 307 which I'm guessing to be about late 2004 to make for a lesser draft. Was there more changes to the keel to make the new england PHRF rating be 120 pre-2006 and 102 post-2006? Thanks
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Re: Catalina 400 MKII draft

I had a Catalina 400 Mk II Hull 297 hauled for survey last Friday. The surveyor measured the draft while in the sling and I was delighted that as she is presently loaded she is drawing 5' 2". The boat only had 1/4 tank of diesel and I don't know how much was in the water / holding tanks.

Catalina's reported draft of 5' 4" might reflect anticipating loading the boat down a bit. Surveyor said that I could expect the boat to sink 1" for every 1,500 lbs.
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