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  #11  
Old 10-13-2010
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Lawdawg,

I think we're beginning to get a much better idea of where you are in your search. When you first posted, I got the impression you were just starting out. And, the Sabre vs. I.P comparison suggested you were pretty far apart in what you thought you might want.

Now it seems more like you are fairly set on the I.P., but just wanted to do a sanity check after seeing a few Sabres. Nothing wrong with that.

But if you weren't planning to join the ARC for an Atlantic crossing, I'd lean toward the Sabre. Others might disagree.

You could do far worse than an I.P. for the kind of sailing you plan. It's a safe bet, proven platform, with generally good resale value too. If you can stand one more thread, here's one specifically about Island PAckets. We had a lot of good input from several I.P. owners in that one.

At some point, you DO have to narrow down the options and start looking at individual boats. Especially on your short timetable, and given that you have to fly around to see them. So it sounds like you've got a good plan going.

My final bit of advice is to keep an open mind as you go around looking -- you never know what might be just a few slips down from an I.P. or Sabre.
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JohnRPolland,
I went down last weekend to look at a specific IP35. I understood that they weren't the best light air sailors, but a lot of comfort, quality and liveability with great factory and customer support. I thought the boat lived up to all my expectations in those areas. One thing I truly didn't like was the rack-and-pinion steering with the rod through the knees and the 'tiny' wheel. But, I could see where it gets its reputation, it just felt really solid, part of that probably due to the full keel and wide beam.
I also looked at and crossed off Endeavor 42 and a few others. Then I went out on a Sabre 35 and really liked the cockpit and I had heard about their quality. When I looked up the Sabre 38 and 42 on yachtworld part of me just thought....Wow, that is a gorgeous boat, and silly as it may sound, I really like the cockpit with the large wheel and pedestal. With the added length they even overcome some of my tankage concerns with the Sabre 35 size.
Yes, I could be very happy with an IP and may end up that route, but before I do I'm going to spend some time and go see some of the Sabres. There are little touches on both of them, like the fold up salon table to maximize room that I like as well.
As I said before, I have read a lot of your posts, and if there are a few boats you think I should short-list I would certainly appreciate it.
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Old 10-13-2010
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This has really turned into an educational thread for us lookers. Thanks guys.
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Older IP's

The older IP's had the steering wheel with the bar between the knees. That slowly went away with the newer models. If your interested in the IP 35 or IP 38 check out the IP 37. Basically a newer 38 with some improvements and minus the between the knees steering. IP model numbers take a bit to figure out. They have a great website IPY.com where you can look at all the past n present models complete with layouts and the like. Yachtworld.com is also a great place to look at pics and specs. Window shopping at its best. Also feel free to call IP any time if you have a question. You won't find a friendlier bunch. If your gonna cruise remember the ship you choose is also your home. I have a IP 32 and although I won't win any races when the wind howls I feel comfy and safe. If your interested in IP's I bet any owner you bump into would be happy to take you out or show you their ship. Its just that way with IP owners.

Last edited by Rickrv4; 10-13-2010 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 10-13-2010
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RickRv4,

Great input and resources, there.


lawdawg,

We'd love to hear how your search finally pans out. Keep us posted, and be sure to ask questions about any specific models (I.P.s, Sabres, ???) you zero in on, as we generally have at least a couple members who know any given boat fairly well.

Great trip you've got planned there, too. Best of luck.
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Old 10-14-2010
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I will be a little guarded in my comments, but here goes:

I live in SW Fl on our boat (wife, 2 kids, fat bulldog). The 6 foot draft is ok. There are many places you cannot go, but most of the time you can anchor a short way out and take your tender in. THat is always the most fun anyways. If you stick around 6, I would be surprised if you have many problems. And taht deeper draft will play in your favor when you get into the deeper water and are making longer runs (I believe they are more sure footed and point better).

Do not underestimate the importance of sailing well. You can't carry enough fuel to motor across the Atlantic. And better performing (sailing) boats have a huge safety aspect to them. Case in point might be when we came across the gulf. We got caught in a gale. I was hooking across at 8.5 - 9.5 kts. It minimized my exposure (and absolute discomfort). Now when the seas hit 10+ feet, I don't care what boat you are on, it gets uncomfortable with some baots worse than others. But if you are making best time across, you will be much happier. Plus, better sailing boats will use less fuel. You will be in light winds all the time (we are). Bobbing around at 3 knots stinks and you will get real tired of it real quick and turn on the iron ginny. There goes your fuel. Better sialing boats can get away with less fuel because they sail... a novel idea on a sailboat, I know.

I sail CIRCLES around IPs and Valiants - and my boat is grossly overloaded with everything from legos and books to a very large solar array. The wind has to really start blowing for the IP's of the world to catch up and when the wind is howling like that, you aren't going to want to go out in the first place because the seas stink. Now if you are in the middle of the ocean, you have no choice. I understand that. But all the better time to have a good performing boat that can make the most of the light wind days and have superior control when it is not so light (like being able to point and being sure footed).

I have (duck and cover) always felt that Sabres were over priced Catalinas and IP's were overpriced (and over hyped) tankers. For example, the PHRF on my C400 is 102. IP doesn't make a boat at any size that approaches that number that I am aware of! Not even their IP45 which is in the 126! In some respects, we hate racing against them because you can arrive at the finish line when they are still rounding the first mark, AND THEY STILL BEAT YOU!! Now the sabre has a better PHRF than we have. But the cost, lack of fuel, and general livability of them pushed me away as an option. Bottom line is I think they are overall a better boat than a Catalina (Jeff will break in and tell me about their expensive hull layup, etc), but are they THAT much of a better, comparably sized, Catalina? And the key negatives of taking a Catalina 400 across the pond (spade rudder, low tankage, wide open cockpit, open saloon, etc) are exactly the same issues you face with a Sabre.

So no one hate me, ok? THese are just my opinions. But if I was serious about his locations, I would seriously consider buying a Passport 40 (PHRF 138... which is a crock because I have seen them running faster than that) or if I could talk him out of actually sailing his boat across the pond (use dockwise to ship it), put him in a production boat which would be perfect for everything BUT crossing the pond (though we have Catalina that do it).

TO be clear on one other thing, I am not suggesting him buy a Catalina. I am not trying to tote the Catalina line. I am just pointing out some real negatives of the two boats he seems to be stuck on and trying to get him to consider other options, and why. Basically - don't underestimate the importance of performance.

And lawdawg, I am in Fort Myers Beach right now. If you are in that area too, we would be happy to meet you and your wife and show you around our boat and what works for us and what does not.

Brian
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  #17  
Old 10-14-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
...

Do not underestimate the importance of sailing well. You can't carry enough fuel to motor across the Atlantic. And better performing (sailing) boats have a huge safety aspect to them. Case in point might be when we came across the gulf. We got caught in a gale. I was hooking across at 8.5 - 9.5 kts. It minimized my exposure (and absolute discomfort). Now when the seas hit 10+ feet, I don't care what boat you are on, it gets uncomfortable with some baots worse than others. But if you are making best time across, you will be much happier. Plus, better sailing boats will use less fuel. You will be in light winds all the time (we are). Bobbing around at 3 knots stinks and you will get real tired of it real quick and turn on the iron ginny. There goes your fuel. Better sialing boats can get away with less fuel because they sail... a novel idea on a sailboat, I know.

I sail CIRCLES around IPs and Valiants - and my boat is grossly overloaded with everything from legos and books to a very large solar array. The wind has to really start blowing for the IP's of the world to catch up and when the wind is howling like that, you aren't going to want to go out in the first place because the seas stink. Now if you are in the middle of the ocean, you have no choice. I understand that. But all the better time to have a good performing boat that can make the most of the light wind days and have superior control when it is not so light (like being able to point and being sure footed).

I have (duck and cover) always felt that Sabres were over priced Catalinas and IP's were overpriced (and over hyped) tankers. ...

Brian
I could not agree more. Brian, there is still hope for you, I mean that you'll come to sail on a really fast cruiser boat

No kidding, the Island Packet was my favorite boat. Really was I swear... but that was 30 years ago . Well I have changed as a sailor, but the IP has not changed that much.

On the ARC you will not be able to catch up with almost any-boat and will be left far behind. If you like to sail alone, that's fine, but then why do you want to make the ARC? You could go alone and save the inscription rates

Regards

Paulo
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  #18  
Old 10-14-2010
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And you know Paulo, I still would look seriously into shipping the boat across via Dockwise. Sailing that boat across will be expeisive too. Assuming no catastrophic failures, you will still put incredible wear-tear on the boat and she will have to be very heavily outfitted with all kinds of safety gear, extra sails, extra fuel, etc that you might not put on it if you were 'coastal' (within a few days of land).

I also get the impression (maybe wrongly so) that the poster is not an accomplished long distance cruiser. And I mean this with no dissrespect, but that is a short time table to buy, prep, and learn your boat and do all of that. If you take the ARC out (or just sailing across the Atlantic), your option for boats now includes boats which I feel are much better suited for the bahamas and carribean (namely production boats like Bene, Jeau, and Catalina). The B40 is a nice performing boat and has a lot of hatches and light that you will come to appreciate as a live aboard. Remember, all cruisers are live aboards and we all (no matter what they say on the forum) want to be as comfortable as possible. You have to see this boat as your home, not a boat and not a weekender.

Anyways, don't listen to anything Paulo says. He will try and sell you an X yacht or Swan which he knows deep down in side is no where near as good or fast as a Catalina!! HEHE!
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  #19  
Old 10-14-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
...No kidding, the Island Packet was my favorite boat. Really was I swear... but that was 30 years ago . Well I have changed as a sailor, but the IP has not changed that much....
Paulo,

I think what you really mean to ask, is: How Heavy is Too Heavy?


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Cruisingdad- Thanks for your comments and for the record I wish I had of posted this last week because I was near ft myers looking at the IP35 on Saturday and would have really enjoyed chatting with you. If you don't mind, and you can feel free to privately reply, but I would like a little more input on your choice with the Catalina v Sabre in that you mentioned tankage and livability of the Sabres pushed you off as an option. I general hear IPs regarded, if for nothing else, as good on tankage and storage. When I looked at the Sabres I compared the IP35 LOA 38 with water 90/fuel 48 to the Sabre42 LOA 41.9 water 120/fuel 40, and it seemed that the larger Sabre came close to overcoming some of the tankage concerns of the smaller ones. You also mentioned that you had reservations about the livability of the Sabre and I would greatly appreciate why? Obviously this will be our home for quite some time!
You were correct, I don't have long distance cruising experience, and no offense taken, your thoughts are very helpful. I have mainly daysailing with a little coastal, and will help take an IP42 from Sarasota to the Bahamas in November. We were planning the first year in the Caribbean to get to know the boat and then the following year heading over in April and then back with ARC in November, winter in the islands and then back to the 'real world'. I guess a crossing has just been something we have both wanted to accomplish on our bucket list so to speak.
Once again, everyone has been incredibly helpful!
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