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  #51  
Old 10-15-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
...

This is a really cool boat. I am excited to see Catalina making some nice changes. WHatcha think?? Catalina 445 boat test and boat review

Fractional rig, removeable bowsprit, plumb bow, sa/D 16.7... I like it. It is also a break from Catalina tradition in that they cored the hull above the waterline and glassed in the stern/deck/hull versus that rediculous hull deck joint thing that Beneteau does. Looks a sweet ride.

Brian
Yes it looks like a great boat, with a modern rigging and if the testers are right a pretty fast boat too. But I have to be honest and say that even if I always considered the Catalina a good boat (my neighbor at the Nazaré Marina had one) I never managed to like the aesthetics. In that respect, even if I like more the catalina hull, I find the Sabre a more beautiful boat.

this is personal of course, and a question of taste. what I consider a really good looking cruising boat is the one Marty has just posted on another thread, this one:

Sun Odyssey 439

Regards

Paulo
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  #52  
Old 10-15-2010
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Main difference - the Sabre will be fun to daysail upwind in a moderate breeze. That's a big difference. If a boat cannot translate breeze and water into fun, it has no reason to exist. Ask yourself which wheel you'd rather hold on a nice daysail.

Honestly, when I see IP's in Maine, they're usually motoring. The Sabre's are sailing.
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  #53  
Old 10-15-2010
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IP's arent made to daysail. They are made for tradewind cruising. Seems kind of odd to me that a choice would be between an IP and a Sabre. Not really made for the same purpose.
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  #54  
Old 10-16-2010
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A couple of comments; Sabre never went bankrupt. They reorganized voluntarily in 1992 unlike many others who filed chapter 11 or just went out of biz in the late 80's/early 90's. They re-emerged with a design mandate to carry over the same look and style of the original pre 1992 Sabres but with a more modern design, fuller aft section and Jim Taylor as hull designer.
(See text in Ferenc Mate's World's Greatest Sailboats, Vol 2)

Rudder posts on Sabre are not CF/Carbon Fibre, they are stainless steel and it is only the rudder BEARINGS on newer models that are CF and that is due to the flexibility of the material. (Where they are out of the sun and light and less prone to degradation.)
You won't find carbon fibre masts on production Sabres.
The grid systems found on most production sailboats are to the best of my knowledge NOT fiberglassed in to the hull. They are bonded and often with a brand name adhesive called "Plexus" which guys who know a lot more than I do (and can spell better than I can) say is a super glue in the "metho cryalate" group or some such technical material.
Whoaa, the wife just said I can take the boat out again and stay overnight! I'm outta here.
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  #55  
Old 10-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes it looks like a great boat, with a modern rigging and if the testers are right a pretty fast boat too. But I have to be honest and say that even if I always considered the Catalina a good boat (my neighbor at the Nazaré Marina had one) I never managed to like the aesthetics. In that respect, even if I like more the catalina hull, I find the Sabre a more beautiful boat.

this is personal of course, and a question of taste. what I consider a really good looking cruising boat is the one Marty has just posted on another thread, this one:

Sun Odyssey 439

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,

There's something about Catalinas. For me, when I look at profile drawings of these boats which show the entire hull profile (including below the waterline), they look odd to my eye. But -- and I don't know why this is -- if you take a piece of paper, and cover the below-waterline portion of the hull, the appearance seems to improve.

Anyway, we have a Catalina 445 at our marina in the water, and it looks much better in person than in the drawings.

No question, though, that the Sabre is a more handsome boat, in the classic sense. Still, there's really no accounting for personal tastes or aesthetic preferences. For instance, you find that Jeanneau to be a good looking boat, and to my North American eye it is not particularly attractive. It has a distinctly "euro" look that reminds me of boats built for the Caribbean charter trade.

By "euro" I certainly don't mean to disparage our friends on the other side of the Atlantic. In North America, "euro" has a connotation that generally means "ultra modern" or "contemporary", as opposed to classic or traditional in appearance. It's not an insult. In fact it can be used as a compliment. But for those of us who prefer more traditional looking boats like the Sabre, the "euro" look would not be appealing.

Those stretched, fine entry bows are nice for extending the waterline, but they generally result in fairly wet boats on deck. Belowdecks the bows of the boat are not as useful for accommodations/storage as compared to a boat with fuller bows and more flare -- the v-berths tend to be very tight/cramped (they'd be better off going with a pullman style berth and shifting the head forward.) I also wonder how that Jeanneau would look when it gets fitted out for sailing -- dodger, bimini, solar panels, arch, davits etc? Probably not nearly as sleek as the stripped boat in the images.

But that's really another thread.
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  #56  
Old 10-16-2010
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Wow. What a great thread. The discussion is intelligent, polite, and detailed. Bravo, Sailnet.

A few comments:

1. Old Sabres have SS posts.
2. The 38 came in 2 models, an aft cabin and a traditional layout. I like the traditional layout because it's more open. Victoria is this style.
3. Bulkheads are tabbed. See following links on the Port & Stbd repair. I had to tab the new sections to the hull.
S/V Victoria Head Reconstruction
S/V Victoria Head Reconstruction
4. Interiors on Sabres are hand built with very few moulded sections. This is one of the significant reasons for the greater cost. The older boats like mine have no moulded sections. This makes for a beautiful boat, but one that is heavy (older Sabres used marine ply). I believe that newer boats use lighter materials. Catalinas have many more moulded components that result in reduced cost, but a more sterile feel. Some people (not me) equate that to poor quality.
5.
Quote:
fine entry bows ... generally result in fairly wet boats on deck
- I agree. Our 38 is much wetter up front than I would like, but it's not a deal breaker. I shut the fore hatch.

I think that IP, Sabre, and Catalina are all good boats. I really like Catalinas, but their fit and finish isn't the same as Sabre. IP is somewhere in between, but a dramatically different boat (full keel, bow sprit, rig, etc). IMO, Sabre is closer to Catalina in style and performance than IP. Of course, I'm not backing that up with numbers but it seems obvious to me.

I would not cross an ocean on a stock IP, Sabre, or Catalina. While it may be feasible, I wouldn't do it. As an example, I sailed a stock Catalina 30 offshore from Ocean City, NJ to Newport, RI in 1978 dead reckoning without Loran, etc. Today, I would not do the same passage on my Sabre without some modifications, even with 3 GPS units, more knowledge, and vastly superior safety equipment.

The reality is that very few boats do a passage, sail in Force 9 conditions, or meet truly extreme conditions (being frightened does not equate to extreme conditions). My recommendation is to buy the boat that best suits the needs and eye appeal of the owner. In other words, go with your gut. This is a great problem to have - "what yacht to buy".
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Last edited by Sabreman; 10-16-2010 at 10:42 AM.
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  #57  
Old 10-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreman View Post
...
I think that IP, Sabre, and Catalina are all good boats. I really like Catalinas, but their fit and finish isn't the same as Sabre. IP is somewhere in between, but a dramatically different boat (full keel, bow sprit, rig, etc). IMO, Sabre is closer to Catalina in style and performance than IP. Of course, I'm not backing that up with numbers but it seems obvious to me.
.....
The reality is that very few boats do a passage, sail in Force 9 conditions, or meet truly extreme conditions (being frightened does not equate to extreme conditions). My recommendation is to buy the boat that best suits the needs and eye appeal of the owner. In other words, go with your gut. This is a great problem to have - "what yacht to buy".
I agree with that and I would add that even if you do one or two Transats you are going to coastal sail most of the time and most of the time you will have very weak, weak, or medium winds (unless you plan to sail in winter). That means that with an IP you are going to motor or motor sail most of the time.

Yes, "the boat that best suits the needs and eye appeal of the owner"...but I would make another suggestion : Test sail the the boats you are interested in. One thing is the boat in a boat show, other is sailing with the boat.

All the best

Paulo
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  #58  
Old 10-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post
Paulo,

.....
Anyway, we have a Catalina 445 at our marina in the water, and it looks much better in person than in the drawings.

No question, though, that the Sabre is a more handsome boat, in the classic sense. Still, there's really no accounting for personal tastes or aesthetic preferences. For instance, you find that Jeanneau to be a good looking boat, and to my North American eye it is not particularly attractive. It has a distinctly "euro" look that reminds me of boats built for the Caribbean charter trade.

By "euro" I certainly don't mean to disparage our friends on the other side of the Atlantic. In North America, "euro" has a connotation that generally means "ultra modern" or "contemporary", as opposed to classic or traditional in appearance. It's not an insult. In fact it can be used as a compliment. But for those of us who prefer more traditional looking boats like the Sabre, the "euro" look would not be appealing.
John,

I have said that it was only my particular taste and I have only posted because I have been asked too, and I didn't wanted to be impolite . Yes the new Jeanneau looks slick and very modern, Euro, if you like, but the Europeans also like and buy boats with a classical look (even if in smaller numbers) but the idea they have of a modern classic is this (I like also the looks of this one. The designer is American) :

Moody Yachts

Or this one:

Classic line

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-16-2010 at 02:37 PM.
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  #59  
Old 10-21-2010
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Put an offer on a Sabre 42, it was accepted and going to N.C. this weekend to look at it.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=7346&url=
This is the link, would certainly appreciate feedback, seems pretty well-equipped and ready to go.
I'm to say the least excited to go see her!
Thanks to everyone!
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  #60  
Old 10-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdawg View Post
Put an offer on a Sabre 42, it was accepted and going to N.C. this weekend to look at it.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=7346&url=
This is the link, would certainly appreciate feedback, seems pretty well-equipped and ready to go.
I'm to say the least excited to go see her!
Thanks to everyone!
I told you earlier and I will tell you again that I liked the boat and think you made a good choice. I hope that you will take my comments as they were meant, only constructive, and if I had a problem with that boat, I would have todl you so. I am very happy for you Drew, and am excited that we might see you out there. THe offer still stands to catch up and meet you and your wife. We are in Fort Myers Beach right now (maybe until December, might bot be back after Thanksgiving though) then beyond we hope but that is beyond our control. But if we are within a dink ride of each other, you bet we will stop by and invite you over for drinks. I buy the first round, you babysit!!!!

Get a very good survey on that boat. I know one if you need one. He did my dad's boat (I would have none other) and I have sailed with him in the Pacific and known for years. So you let me know. But no matter, YOU pick the surveyor and make sure he is thorough.

Feel free to touch base anytime!!! All the best and congrats!!!

Brian & family.
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