Sabre 42- comments appreciated vs IP

[lawdawg]

I have been narrowing down to IP35 and 38s, we are a couple heading out for two years to the Caribbean and the second year across the Atlantic and back with the ARC. I went on my brokers Sabre 34 Sunday and liked the build quality. I happened to see a Sabre 42 for sale in the same price range as the IP 35 and 38s I've seen. The Sabre is the shallow draft edition and the space and layout seem very comparable to the IP38. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on comparing these boats or just general thoughts on the Sabre 42. I believe the Sabre may sail a little better in lighter winds and the 42 looks like it is big enough to get over some of the light tankage issues of smaller Sabres. Thanks for your thoughts!

[chef2sail]

Its like comparing the tortoise to the hare.

Sabre build quality is traditionally excellant. True American sucess story. IP are also built well....like tanks.

IP- Full keel...stable, protected rudder, Good tankage, slow performer to windward

Sabre- Performance sailbaot

[kd3pc]

build and repair quality are great in the Sabre, but I am partial - owned a 38 for a few years. Sabre boats sail extremely well, are easy to sail and can be rigged for shorthanded sailing.

IP's were a bit pricey compared to the competition when I looked closely at them in early 2000, but well built and seemed to have been designed with maintenance in mind. Good tankage and as Chef says built like tanks. Although I don't like the "off white" color...many do. My slipmate loves his 38, and doesn't need to leave the cockpit to sail. Well built boats.

Either would be great,

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by lawdawg

...I believe the Sabre may sail a little better in lighter winds...

Now that is an understatement!! I think you'd find that the Sabre can sail MUCH better in light winds.

Whether it will when fully laden for a multi-year sabbatical, is another story. Some of that advantage will probably be lost when the Sabre gets heavily loaded.

As said, both boats have strong reputations. There are also some strong opinions about whether those reputations are deserved, particularly when it comes to I.P. You tend to hear a lot of negative feedback about them, from people who feel they can't sail for beans. But plenty of owners have defended their sailing ability, and there's no question that they have taken their owners far and wide in comfort.

One thing that would concern me a bit about that Sabre, is the spade rudder combined with the shallow draft keel. Speaking personally, that is not my ideal combination for ocean voyaging. But some would say that the I.P. keel/rudder combo is not much better. (I.P.'s rudder configuration is essentially a spade rudder connected to the full keel by a metal plate.)

That is a wonderful trip you're planning. Have you looked at any other boats beyond I.P. and Sabre?

P.S. Welcome to Sailnet!

[lawdawg]

Thank you for all the great comments, I never expected such quick and well thought out replies! I will be leaving in February and so my search admittedly was a little limited as I don't have a lot of experience in this size of boat. I know that ideally one would take a year or two looking and narrowing down, but with my schedule, that is not really a possibility. We have a couple years to get out and do it before needing to be back. A friend has an IP42 and used to have a 38, that is where I started looking and though there are plenty of comments on their lack of 'speedy' sailing, I do like the fact that they are generally considered very safe, as 'chef2sail' said, tank-like. We are on a long cruise, so comfort and safety are top of the list, but it would be nice to get some speed as well. I sailed an IP35 this weekend and it certainly was a stable and solid boat, but it was a very light wind day and I can see where the comments about light-wind motoring come from, but like I said, definitely impressed with the quality of the boat. On Sunday I got on the Sabre and really enjoyed that as well, but that was a 34, and I'm sure quite a different boat than the 42 I saw online. The closest Sabre is a good 10 hour drive away, which is why getting some opinions is so helpful at this point.
I've tried to do a good bit of research online, and have read tons of advice on boats at certain price boats, but when I pull up the specs, many are not under 6' drafts and I am looking for a boat without a canoe stern, which knocks out a lot of the often-touted boats like the Valiant. Undeniably a great boat, and one of the most proven blue-water boats ever, just everyone has their opinions on visual appeal. I'm trying to stay around the 120k mark with another 20k for refits before going. If I can get it for less, even better.
Like I said, I think that ideally one would have more time to narrow things down, but with my situation I have tried to pick some boats that have a good reputation and also a fair number of examples that are for sale in that general price point. Again, thank you all for your thoughts, they are all very helpful!

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by lawdawg

....
I've tried to do a good bit of research online, and have read tons of advice on boats at certain price boats, but when I pull up the specs, many are not under 6' drafts and I am looking for a boat without a canoe stern, which knocks out a lot of the often-touted boats like the Valiant. Undeniably a great boat, and one of the most proven blue-water boats ever, just everyone has their opinions on visual appeal. I'm trying to stay around the 120k mark with another 20k for refits before going. If I can get it for less, even better. ...

Okay, that helps some. I see you are on a bit of a timeline -- sounds like you are heading out next year?

It would be pretty easy to find a boat without a canoe stern -- since those are generally more the exception than the norm. Perry and Crealock drew most of them, but there are some others too like those designed by Gillmer and offered by Southern Cross.

I am curious about the < 6' draft requirement. Is it hard and fast, i.e. do you have a specific destination that is constrained by depth, or is your homeport shallow? A limitation of 6' draft won't hamper you too much in the 30-40+' range, but as the boats get longer/larger their performance will be increasingly hampered by shoal draft limitations. A lot of 40 footers come out a bit over 6' draft, so you lose a big swath of candidates when you have a hard cut-off like that.

Also, how many crew will be aboard? Is this a family sabbatical, or a just a couple? I ask, because with your budget and the size range of boat you are looking at, you will be restricted to some older boats. Whereas, if you do not truly need the space of a 40-footer, you could look at some mid-30-footers and come out with a newer boat. Smaller will be less costly to equip and re-fit, too.

Anyway, we have some lists running around here where folks have recommended boats for bluewater sailing, and also for bluewater sailing at a price point. I'll try to dig some up and post links here for you. I guess my point is there are lots of options out there besides Sabre and I.P. If you have alittle time it may be worth it to consider some other possibilities.

The perfect $100k circumnavigator

Dreaming of Bluewater

Offshore Cruising Boat List

[sck5]

check out Calibers. 5 ft draft, great blue water cruisers and they sail MUCH better than IP's though they are heavy boats and won't sail as well as a Sabre (but that is true of most cruising boats). I always thought Sabres were beautiful sailboats

[rockDAWG]

Originally Posted by kd3pc

Although I don't like the "off white" color...many do.

Geez ....... I thought I was the only one. The color reminds me the polyester beige in the 70's.

[chef2sail]

I second the Calibers. I like the Valiants also, but the canoe sterm appears to be an issue. Both boats have a turn of speed with good diplacement.

Dave

[lawdawg]

JohnRPollard- yes, planning on heading out in February 2011, just the two of us. The under 6 feet is based on where I will be keeping it in Florida and also for the Bahamas. I started out in the mid thirties with the IP 35 and 38, then when I saw that Sabre 42, and even the 38, I just think they are beautiful boats and everyone seems to hold their sailing ability in high regard. I appreciate you posting those links and I've read through them all. I have read quite a few of your posts on here, and if there are any particular suggestions, I'd certainly research them. I know it can get a bit old having people constantly post these sorts of questions on here, but hopefully after I'm through this process I'll have a chance to contribute back down the line. I am trying to narrow down to just a few manufacturers and boats to keep from getting overwhelmed in the search, and since I will probably be looking to sell it in about 3 years when I return, getting a boat with a good reputation and resale potential is part of the equation. I've probably gone through that Mahina list about 50 times and done searches on yachtworld for all different makes on that list, but often feel like I'm searching in the dark. Being in Atlanta, Ga. there aren't exactly a lot of boats nearby, so every time we take a quick trip on our weekends to check a few out it's 700 bucks on airfare and hotels. That's another reason why we are trying to narrow down to a few boats so that we can go see one, and at least have a feel for them without making 20 trips to see all different styles of boats. Hope this post wasn't too long and thank you again.
Thanks for all the comments on the calibers as well, much appreciated.