European sailboats ( especially Contest, Sigma, Etap... ) - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-20-2010
rcoles's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rcoles is on a distinguished road
European sailboats ( especially Contest, Sigma, Etap... )

I am still looking for my next partner... I am attracted by a Bristol 35.5 and a Contest 36. ( way more $ !)
I am a bit leary about the fluidity - or the easyness ) to resell a boat which is not very known in the USA. Contest is made in the Netherlands and its rep is in Vancouver. Etap was made in Belgium and is r3epresented in the North East.
So basically, Contest is not very well known. Does this present a handicap when I'll try to resell her in say 12 years? Then a Bristol would be more appropriate.
Thank you!
Note: I am still looking at a Ericson 38 and a First 37 and a CC Landfall...
Why did I sell my Carter ?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 10-20-2010
bobmcgov's Avatar
baDumbumbum
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Windy Wyoming
Posts: 1,037
Thanks: 0
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bobmcgov will become famous soon enough
The Contest line was built by Conyplex to typically stout Scandinavian guidelines. There are at least three 36' Contests by two different designers, and they vary by 60 points on the PHRF scale. The wing keel version is painfully slow and (one suspects) makes leeway like a haystack.

That's the impression I've gotten researching Contests: all their boats are well-found and comfortable in a seaway; but some sail moderately well, while others (like the Contest 31, SA/D=11) are out-and-out dogs. Woof. Moo. I'd want a sea trial in both light winds and 25 kts before buying one.

Soory to say, forget resale value. Obscure boats may suffer on resale, but they should (should!) also be cheaper when you buy one. Choose what you can afford to purchase and keep that makes you happy. When you sell it, take your beating like a man. Appreciation of your boat counts for more than depreciation.

Etaps are well-regarded, but that's all I know of them. Foam-cored and unsinkable, aren't they?
__________________
Buccaneer18, Grainnia
SJ21, Diarmuid
Albin Ballad 30, Fionn
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 10-20-2010
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Technically, they are double-hulled and have a foam filled space between the two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
Etaps are well-regarded, but that's all I know of them. Foam-cored and unsinkable, aren't they?
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 10-20-2010
rcoles's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rcoles is on a distinguished road
Thanks! SA/D of the Bristol is 15.9 with 41% ballast/D
For the Contest, we get 16.9 with 42% Ballast/D
Of course, I can not compare lateral area / anti-drift area vs wl.
I really like the Contest, beautiful joinery... but very very pri$ey !

As a matter of comparaison, http://cruisingresources.com /Ericson_38_%281980_-_1990%29
must have made a blunt mistake for the E38! It seems they do not include ballast in their displacement! ( do they inflate it ?)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 10-20-2010
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,110
Thanks: 0
Thanked 71 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Here's a link to better numbers on the Ericson. ERICSON 38 Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com
And here is another link that might help. Sail Calculator Pro v3.53 - 2000+ boats
And this link is for Yachtsnet UK, a brokerage that keeps all their pics and info in their archives here. Archive boat data from Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales

I think the foam between the inner and outer hull of the Etap will absorb moisture and therefore weight over the years.

Contest is a solid well built boat - as posted some sail better than others.

Sadlers, designed by David Sadler (designer of Contessa 32) and Martin Sadler are well respected in the UK and good sailers all.

I don't think it makes much difference to resale - a well informed buyer will research the boat if less well known. And at the risk of ruffling feathers I think a lot of European boats are better built and designed than many North American built boats.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 10-20-2010
zz4gta's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 2,444
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 8
zz4gta is on a distinguished road
I've sailed on an ETAP 30 for a year and a half and we did quite well in our local fleet. Winning most races and the occasional 2nd and 3rd. I can't give you any feedback on the 38 though.
__________________
Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 10-21-2010
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
The Contest line was built by Conyplex to typically stout Scandinavian guidelines. There are at least three 36' Contests by two different designers, and they vary by 60 points on the PHRF scale. The wing keel version is painfully slow and (one suspects) makes leeway like a haystack.

That's the impression I've gotten researching Contests: all their boats are well-found and comfortable in a seaway; but some sail moderately well, while others (like the Contest 31, SA/D=11) are out-and-out dogs. Woof. Moo. I'd want a sea trial in both light winds and 25 kts before buying one.

Soory to say, forget resale value. Obscure boats may suffer on resale, but they should (should!) also be cheaper when you buy one. Choose what you can afford to purchase and keep that makes you happy. When you sell it, take your beating like a man. Appreciation of your boat counts for more than depreciation.
....
Contest have in Europe a very high resale value. It is not an obscure boat but one of the most well built and seaworty boat ever built. The company still exists (and that says a lot about the quality of their boats) and still makes beautiful and very expensive bluewater boats. This is a typical Dutch boat, that can be compared to Halberg Rassy, not in its design, but in its quality, and that is especially true with older boats. I think the new ones are even more expensive

Contest Yachts | Home

I think, without looking at anything, that older Contest are slightly faster than HR, but they would be considered slow boats by today's parameters. Older Contest were designed by Dick Zall, a very good Dutch designer. These boats, even with 36ft, are really bluewater boats. There are two 36ft, one that was built from 1974 to 1981 and other from 1984 to 1994. The first one is an old design, but the second one is a beautiful boat, designed already with the shape that would be a trademark for all Contests for almost 20 years. If you are talking about one of the last, than it is natural that the boat cost still good money . It is a very good boat, with a classical line .

http://www.contestyachts.com/media/938/contest-36s.pdf

Contest 36s | Dick Zaal Yacht Design

You have active British and Duch Contest Clubs owners:

Home

Contest Yacht Owners Club

You can ask them about that boat, I am sure they will be glad to help.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 10-21-2010 at 05:08 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 10-21-2010
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,699
Thanks: 68
Thanked 197 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Not sure about the US numbers, but importing a non North American built boat into Canada will cost an additional 9.5% duty. If you're buying new I suppose that's in the initial price.. if you're buying used and crossing the border then you'll get hit with the extra..

Nearly 10% could be what makes your decision, all other things being equal, between a foreign boat and a domestic one.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 10-22-2010
bobmcgov's Avatar
baDumbumbum
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Windy Wyoming
Posts: 1,037
Thanks: 0
Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 8
bobmcgov will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Contest have in Europe a very high resale value. It is not an obscure boat but one of the most well built and seaworty boat ever built. The company still exists (and that says a lot about the quality of their boats) and still makes beautiful and very expensive bluewater boats. This is a typical Dutch boat, that can be compared to Halberg Rassy, not in its design, but in its quality, and that is especially true with older boats. I think the new ones are even more expensive

Contest Yachts | Home

I think, without looking at anything, that older Contest are slightly faster than HR, but they would be considered slow boats by today's parameters. Older Contest were designed by Dick Zall, a very good Dutch designer. These boats, even with 36ft, are really bluewater boats. There are two 36ft, one that was built from 1974 to 1981 and other from 1984 to 1994. The first one is an old design, but the second one is a beautiful boat, designed already with the shape that would be a trademark for all Contests for almost 20 years. If you are talking about one of the last, than it is natural that the boat cost still good money . It is a very good boat, with a classical line .

http://www.contestyachts.com/media/938/contest-36s.pdf

Contest 36s | Dick Zaal Yacht Design

You have active British and Duch Contest Clubs owners:

Home

Contest Yacht Owners Club

You can ask them about that boat, I am sure they will be glad to help.

Regards

Paulo
They are obscure in North America, particularly on the West Coast of the US. That is where the prospective buyer is, and where sale/resale price will be determined. RColes is knowledgeable about sailboats, yet he came here for opinions because Contests are not frequent on the docks. If he wants a fair resale price, he is welcome to sail his Contest to Europe to sell it, where the boat will be appreciated and fetch a higher price.

In the US, you either wait years for the rare buyer who knows and values the brand, or you accept a price discount. *shrug* How many Europeans really know Morris Yachts and would be willing to pay premium for them -- over and above a known European quantity like Bavaria?

Look, I'm a huge fan of Scandinavian boats little known in the US -- Albins are my favorites, along with Omega, Scanmar, Sweden Yachts, and English permutations of Nordic design like SHE and Sigma. And of course Contessa -- but Contessas were built in North America for a while, they are a famous name much written about by Americans (Kretschmer, Aebi), and everyone knows a Contessa 32 survived the '79 Fastnet when larger yachts did not. No one knows a SHE of similar size also finished that race in good form. So even in Europe, Contessas sell quicker & fetch higher prices than SHEs -- the Fame Premium. Here in the US, the Contessa 32 commonly sells for $35-40k USD; the similar Albin Ballad sells for under $12,000 -- commonly $8,000, and I tried to buy one in Seattle for $1000 USD, no kidding. This same boat has been listed at $48k in Denmark.

So don't get your back up, dude. "Obscure" is not an indictment of Conyplex or Contest or their yachts (tho their early product line was uneven and they did build some dogs), but rather a commentary on how ignorant we in the US are of many old, established, and well-regarded builders in other parts of the world. And how that affects sale and resale prices.

(And vice versa. I'm sure the worthies present could rattle off dozens of boutique North American sailboat marques that have been building top-notch craft for 100 years -- and you would never have heard of most.)
__________________
Buccaneer18, Grainnia
SJ21, Diarmuid
Albin Ballad 30, Fionn

Last edited by bobmcgov; 10-22-2010 at 11:06 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 10-22-2010
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,110
Thanks: 0
Thanked 71 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
The prospective buyer's profile says he cruises Long Island. I think it is located on the East Coast.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Contest sailboats! moonie5961 Gear & Maintenance 1 06-20-2010 05:26 AM
WHAT''S AN ETAP? KenD Boat Review and Purchase Forum 22 07-04-2008 07:31 PM
ETAP h20ski Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 01-19-2005 05:12 PM
ETAP??? murph182 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 2 01-26-2002 06:12 PM
Etap 39 stord Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 10-16-2001 06:42 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:07 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.