Old vs New - which boat should I buy?

[neilfromsydney]

I am about to buy my 2nd sailing boat (the last one was sold 20 years ago) and I have 3 on my shortlist.

My intention is to live aboard for 1 year, further refine my boating skills, and gain experience in sailing the east coast of Australia for a month or 3 at a time.

If after 1 year I find that living aboard is not for me I will sell the boat. If I enjoy living aboard then my dream is to sail around the Pacific and then who knows where for several more years.

The boats on my shortlist are: a 3-cabin owner's version 1996 Catalina 42 MKII for $200K, a 3-cabin 2001 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 43 DS for $250K and a 2-cabin 2006 Catalina 42 MKII for $280K. I only need room for me at present but live in hope of finding a new 'wife' along the way. Family or friends may visit from time to time but 2 cabins and the saloon table are probably quite sufficient accommodation. All boats have a very similar level of equipment although the 2006 Catalina does have davits and a bow-thruster which are an extra luxury and cost about $23K fitted new.

Looking to the short term, which boat is likely to cost me the least if I decide to resell in 1 year? Looking to the long term, which boat should I choose?

Help please .

[Jeff_H]

While these are all reasonably good coastal cruisers and live-aboards, they are not exactly the kind of offshore capable cruisers that I would want if my plans include: "my dream is to sail around the Pacific and then who knows where for several more years." In other words, no matter which option you end up pursuing, your plans for the boat should probably include being sold after a short period of time in either case.

In terms of holding its value, most of us are in the U.S. or Europe, so it is hard to evaluate how the market values of these boats will hold up in Australia. With that in mind all I can comment on is very broad generalities.

In a general sense the Catalina is a lighter duty boat than the Jeanneau and a more dated design.

My understanding of Australian cruising is that it includes a larger percentage of heavy weather than we experience in the states and so if you use the boat a lot, the lighter duty construction on the Catalina is more likely to show up in greater visible and perhaps structural wear patterns and a higher maintenance budget.

Catalina has been replacing these older outdated models with more modern designs. I don't know how that would would impact things in Australia but in the States, the availability of newer, better all-around designs would theoretically cause a greater depreciation for the older Catalinas than for the Jeanneau which already reflected newer thinking in terms of better handling, more seaworthy, and increased motion comfort hull forms and rigs.

Jeff

[Zanshin]

I had a 43DS and was quite happy with it. The bow-thruster would be nice-to-have on that size but davits would be great for singlehanders like us - I hated having to spend time and sweat getting the heavy Caribe dinghy aboard, cleaned, turned around and tied down every single time I wanted to make even the smallest ocean passage.
The 43DS layout is optimal, you can convert that small forward side cabin into either storage or a workroom. The boat is mild-mannered and is easy to sail alone or with non-involved crew aboard yet can sleep 3 couples comfortably and even more uncomfortably.
I spent some time in Sydney and east coast and think that it would be a fitting boat. I'm not familiar with the Catalina but the 2006 looks like a lot of boat for a lower price. Why is it priced to close to the 2001 43DS?

[neilfromsydney]

Thank you both for your helpful replies.

Zanshin please note that the 2006 Catalina has a higher price ($280K) than the 2001 Jeanneau ($250K). And it is only the 2006 Catalina that has the bowthruster and davits.

[neilfromsydney]

G'day (is it?) Arnt,

How have you found your deck saloons with regard to living aboard? My last boat had very small portholes and thus a not-very-light saloon. Perhaps I should choose the 43 DS over the other boats for this reason alone?

In case you are interested the 43 DS is shown here: http://www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?seot=1&R=9334062&silo=-1&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|1|| pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&Cr=&trecs=1&__N=1456%20285%204294911517%204294868169.

Best wishes, Neil

[jordanship]

Speaking in broad generalities as well, I find that in general for depreciation the design does not matter as much as the condition. What determines the difference in purchase price + expenses versus sale price after one year for brokerage boats is more due to the initial condition than due to the specific model. If you purchase a wreck at a fair price, then you will have to spend a considerable amount of money to fund your year of sailing. If you purchase a yacht in Bristol condition, then you can kind of coast on the previous owner's expenditures. You can even let the boat deteriorate a bit and still sell for a fair price.

In fact I find that in a majority of cases owners who do not invest money in their yacht make out better financially. Owners who buy new sails, re-power, and upgrade electronics fair worse than those who limp along on outdated equipment. This trend has been especially true during this down market cycle where buyers are aggressively trading short term for long term costs.

Over the short term, my recommendation would be to buy the one in the best condition for a fair price and invest as little as possible over the following year. Keep in mind that selling does not take place instantaneously, so your boat will likely be on the market for at least 6 months to a year beyond the year of sailing.

Hope this helps and have a great day.

[Zanshin]

The 43DS in the advert looks nice. Is there a liferaft in the pod or a genset? The Jeanneau DS does give a lot of light to the boat interior, but that aspect is better in marketing than in real life for boats in warmer climates. When aboard and at anchor, I live in the cockpit and rarely spend time below deck during the day. I didn't do any sailing while in Sydney but it seems that outside of Sydney Harbour the rivers and anchorages (pittwater,Lake Macquarie,Hawkesbury River) were pretty shallow so I don't know if draft is a major issue - what do the Catalinas draw in comparison to the Jeanneau?

[Yorksailor]

My wife chose our boat and she had a shopping list...bowthruster and davits both figured prominently. Since the market for that boat will tend to be middle aged couples I think the thruster and davits might be a big selling point if all else is equal.

[tdw]

Neil,

I'm someone who lusts after a deck saloon but only if that means the windows are at eye level when seated. Quite frankly apart from that they are a waste of time imho. Aside from being able to see out, I'm more than happy with the cool allbeit dark interior of our old girl. Then again I could be accused of being a gloom freak.

Must say though I have always liked the look of those turn of the century era DS43s. Handsome looking boats I reckon. Our plans are basically East Coast Oz, Tasmania, Kimberley Coast and maybe a circuit of the Oceanian islands (Solomons, Louisiades, New Caledonia blah blah blah) and for that I reckon the DS would be a half way decent choice. If we were to choose to trip across the Tasman I'd want to pick my weather very carefully indeed but in the DS it would still be doable.

Zanshin, not sure where you got that info but by and large draft is not an issue in Sydney Harbour or Broken Bay. Even Lake Macquarie is OK once you over the drop off. Recent dredging in the Swansea Channel has made it practicable for anything under 2.5m draft to get through. Admittedly it was pretty crook before that with even boats of 1.8m draft getting stuck in the sand.

There are precious few Sydney anchorages that are a problem for even 3m draft and other than a couple of places in Pittwater off Barrenjoey the same applies to Broken Bay/Hawkesbury and tributaries. Indeed so deep are Smiths/Cowan/Refuge/Americas e.g that during WWII the USN kept a flotilla of warships there.

[Hartley18]

Neil/TDW,

As far as deck saloons go, I notice there are a few Southcoast deck saloons for sale in Sydney that don't look too bad to me.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about these boats - for all I know, they might be complete rubbish. Just chucking it out there for consideration.