Option: Catalina 36 and 38

[tsenator]

Gary,

You should *really* say go back through the archives and you will see a LOT of positive comments on Catalina and especially the C36 from many boaters. When I bought mine used (its a ''99 model) it wasn''t on the market long. The resale value is great and I could easily sell my boat and get around what I put into it (how many boats can you say that about !!). They have made over 2200 and they are still coveted, and for a good reason. They are well designed and well balanced boat with an excellent layout. No boat is a perfect boat, it all depends what its going to be used for. I think the C36MKII''s is one of the best Coastal cruisers out their under $220k for me. Yeah there are other boats that are very nice but at 2 times the price. (And others I am not happy with the layout) Maybe the teak joinery is not that of a Hinckley but the money is well spent on the important parts of the boat..... these are very solid and safe .

Are you looking to purchase this new or used ? If used then everything that follows is moot, but with all due respect to Jeff, as he said his contact was a "very small sampling" There are literally Tens & Ten''s of Thousands of Catalinas out there and the experience he relays is not consistent with the huge majority. I''m sure there will always be some unhappy people. I am sure Rolls Royce get a few when they sell a Bentley too. The odds always are not 100%. But anyone that knows *anything* about Catalina knows that if they aren''t satisfied they can call Frank Butler (Founder/Owner) and get satisfaction.....not too many boat manufacturers out there where you can say or do that. There are literally hundreds of stories a year where I here that repeated, but I bet if someone was abrasive, then Frank probably was too (I will not say Frank is perfect, but he really cares about his boats) Jeff related a story of a "Beneteau warranty claims in which Beneteau split the cost of replacing a forward hatch on a boat that was out warranty" , and I can personally relate getting Catalina help with an engine/tranny problem on my boat that was neither in warrantee and I even bought my boat used ! I guess its all how you go about asking for assistance, if I called Frank and was arrogant I bet he wouldn''t give me satisfaction either.


They have tried and true designs, using tried and true construction methods.....saying the quality has gone down is in my mind fallacious, I have monitored these boats for 10 years and look at older ones often. The construction quality is pretty consistent and good . Actually I think things get better over time. For instance, just one example, Catalina recognized that the design of the shroud chainplates could be better and unless caulked well and monitored might leak a bit (nothing major, just a nuisance). I have noticed that they have changed the design of the chainplates as they have done so with MANY of their systems. They are constantly taking owners inputs and entering it into their final product.

Maybe Jeffs comments are because they are not using the high tech exotic materials with carbon fiber, kevlar, exotic sandwich core and other materials and construction methods that he is very fond of. Yes they can be a wonderful thing if used on an America Cup or custom boat with the associated costs. And I will grant you, having a lighter boat is a wonderful thing for sailing. But beware....exotic materials and construction methods if not done properly and well can be a MUCH bigger danger risk and money pit. ( just look at all those wet - delaminating cored hulls out there on the market today... For an idea read here http://www.yachtsurvey.com/core_materials.htm ) Someday if I had all the money in the world, I''d get a cored hull with the best construction designs & methods , but there is something to be said for a solid glass hull in its simplicity and *more* importantly its repair when any kind of water incursion does happen (and chances are it will - its just a matter of time)


I know more than a handful of people that cruise the C36 extensively. There is one guy (Alaskan Po Boy) that has sailed his from Alaska down the pacific and up the Atlantic on the east coast. Its a great boat with a design that really hits "the sweet spot". Not too much to single handed even in heavy seas and with the help of an autopilot its even easier (BTW my ''99 C36 only has a Raymarine 4000 autopilot which is undersized and the boat still handles heavy weather fine -- which tends to lead me to a fairly well balanced boat). With that said, I am sure there are problems that people have had over the years, any boat needs to be inspected. And in the same vein I heard about a steering or rudder failure occurring to a C36 on a voyage, but the boat was almost 18 years old and wasn''t checked --- any boat that is not inspected and maintained can have that happen even Hinckleys and Little Harbors.

I have a friend that entered his C42 "La Buona Vita" in the "Caribbean 1500" this past fall that sails from Virginia to the BVI''s. There were 46 boats entered, all makes and models -- Hunter, Tayana, Valiant, Shannon, Island Packet , Cape Dory, Dear foot, and Catalina, etc. There was some very heavy weather and this Catalina 42 came in 4th place *Overall* !!! She did great and its a great testament to the C42 (which is very much like a big C36) But what is even more telling is what happened to some of the so-called expensive blue water boats. An Island Packet and a Tayana (one of these boats was new) and others had to withdrawal from the middle of the race and be diverted to Bermuda, one had a deck fitting brake and the other had a major rudder problem. Now I wouldn''t try and infer that the Island Packet and a Tayana are not good, well built boats, because they are ! But this is just to illustrate that problems can happen to ANY boat and by inferring that Catalina is worse is incorrect .


Bottom line I am VERY happy with My 1999 Catalina 36MKII and the only reason I would change boats was if I got my hands on more money and could purchase a bigger boat....

[mattjo]

Gary,

As you''re seeing, current C36 owners are a satisfied bunch. If you haven''t already, make sure you go to the C36 owners site - www.catalina36.org. Note on that page some warranty issues that Catalina and it''s suppliers have satisfied, but also that the Owners Association has assisted and advocated for.

I bought my C36 last spring and had a great year with it last year. I too searched this board for advice and feedback, as well as soliciting advice from current owners. Also, Practical Sailor did a review of the boat in the past year or two, which I suggest you get. I was glad to read the feedback of Jeff_H, since it always is good to try to find the good and bad prior to purchasing, and he led me to ask other questions, which have been more than satisfied. I believe he is biased based upon what he knows, but I don''t think his knowledge is representative of the overall. I don''t think he harbors any ill will, but does possess a bias. Denr is just plain negative and unproductive. I''d dismiss any comments he has about anything, good or bad.

Best of luck to you.

[texas gal]

Gary--about a year ago one of the magazines, SAIL, I believe, did a little piece on the prophets of doom that seem to be in each marina, telling other sailors that everything they are doing is wrong. I loved the piece, because it is so true. And message boards are no exception.

We have a Catalina and find her to be very comfortable to sail. I am not much help to my husband while underway... Yet he can manage all 36 feet of her pretty much single-handed. I take the wheel just occasionally, mainly because he wants me to get more comfortable in case a bad situation ever arises. And help with docking. Accomadations are great for us, and a couple of teenagers. Cockpit is fantastic, and the swimming platform. I can easily see it doing the sailing you describe in your original posting. Warranty work is done as needed, sometimes not as quickly as we want, due to logistics at the boatyard, but the truly important stuff was addressed within a day or two. A used boat is only as good as the survey. And any boat will only age as well as you treat her...

[TIDETIM]

There appears to be a small group of people writing in this site that have obvious problems with Catalina. While you all have a right to your feelings, I must disagree with your findings. I purchased a new 2002 C-400 last year and while I''ve had more than my share of warranty issues with the boat, and have had some "interesting" conversations with Gerry Douglas (chief designer), NOT ONCE has Catalina failed to respond to one of my warranty repair requests. Ask my dealer (Chesapeake Yacht Sales in Deltaville, VA), I AM VERY PICKY and even tho I suspect I was a pain in the butt at times, they (and Catalina) were responsive to each and every one of my concerns. They weren''t always fast, but fixes were made. Catalina even sent their roving warranty guy (Bill ...) to make some of the more difficult gelcoat repairs.
Although it took a while, Catalina even wound up repitching my prop to allow my engine to reach full rated rpm. Yes, that was a design "flaw" and wasn''t addressed until I forced the issue, but when Gerry Douglas got involved, they did some in-the-water testing and told my dealer to repitch the prop (BTW, if you have a Yanmar engined C-400 your prop has 2" too much pitch and should be reduced to a 18 x 12 to get your rpm up to 3800).
Every boat is a compromise and Catalina''s are no exception. As has been pointed out by others, Catalina isn''t a Hinkley or even a Sabre, but I continue to believe that for the money, Frank Butler and his people make the best sailboat on the market.
Smooth Sailing!
Tim Leighton
S/V "Magic"

[TIDETIM]

There appears to be a small group of people writing in this site that have obvious problems with Catalina. While you all have a right to your feelings, I must disagree with your findings. I purchased a new 2002 C-400 last year and while I''ve had more than my share of warranty issues with the boat, and have had some "interesting" conversations with Gerry Douglas (chief designer), NOT ONCE has Catalina failed to respond to one of my warranty repair requests. Ask my dealer (Chesapeake Yacht Sales in Deltaville, VA), I AM VERY PICKY and even tho I suspect I was a pain in the butt at times, they (and Catalina) were responsive to each and every one of my concerns. They weren''t always fast, but fixes were made. Catalina even sent their roving warranty guy (Bill ...) to make some of the more difficult gelcoat repairs.
Although it took a while, Catalina even wound up repitching my prop to allow my engine to reach full rated rpm. Yes, that was a design "flaw" and wasn''t addressed until I forced the issue, but when Gerry Douglas got involved, they did some in-the-water testing and told my dealer to repitch the prop (BTW, if you have a Yanmar engined C-400 your prop has 2" too much pitch and should be reduced to a 18 x 12 to get your rpm up to 3800).
Every boat is a compromise and Catalina''s are no exception. As has been pointed out by others, Catalina isn''t a Hinkley or even a Sabre, but I continue to believe that for the money, Frank Butler and his people make the best sailboat on the market.
Smooth Sailing!
Tim Leighton
S/V "Magic"

[Denr]

For all of those Egyptian sailors on the DeNile here are a few facts about the C 400 Catalina that broke the bank:

Rudder installed on the wing keel boat was built for a deep draft boat, it exploded when hitting a reef in the keys, it was almost a foot lower than the bottom of the keel. Not my problem says Frank.

Tabbing of the hull liner came loose from the hull, cabin sole is spongy and squeaks annoyingly.

Countless sharp unfinished fiberglass edges have abraded wiring and plumbing through out the boat.

Strom hood plastic guides don’t flex with the hull and need to be replaced frequently.

Numerous keel stub cracks.

Tracks for the headsail cars are not long enough for a 100% jib.

Several stanchion bases have punctured the deck as they are not backed properly.

Tabbing for dual wheel pedestals have broken loose.

This is not negativity these are facts. I’m certain Catalina has built boats without defects however there seems to be a preponderance of evidence that something is amiss with their quality control program. Buyer beware.

[barr]

I have a 1984 Catalina 36 (yes, almost 20 years old) and have had superb support from the factory. I have spoken to Frank, Gerry and David Graas - they all treat me as if I just bought a new 470. They have spent time with me on the phone and in person at the factory. As on any older boat, I''ve had systems fail but the factory has supported me well beyond my expectations in repairs and upgrades. In short, I cant image a person not getting support from Catalina. I love my 36 and will certainly buy Catalina when I upgrade (probably the 42) in several years. This is mostly due to the support and feeling of "family" that I have gotten from the factory. I highly recommend a Catalina - and especially the 36.

Russ - C36, #206

[CAlbertson]

You say "Catalina 36 and 38" These are actually very different boats not to be grouped together.

First off there is the new C380 which is a new design Catalina. In the Catalina line the "three digit" models are all "new look" designs while the two digit boats are more traditional "look" designs

The C38 is long out of production and only a few hundred were built in the 1980''s The C38 was more of a "racer" but today makes a good "preformence cruiser". If performance per buck is what you want hunt down one of these old boats. (The C38 will sail circles around any C36 and I''m saying this as a C36 owner) It is an S&S design with a hull shape and rig un-like any other Catalina but with construction details exactly to match a
1980''s vintage C36 or C30. There is an active C38 race fleet here (So. Cal)

The C36 has been in continous production from about 1983. with over 2000 sold. They have improved it many times with better systems, a walkthough transum and so on. However the "in the water hull shape and sail plans of all C36s are identical so they all handle the same. The C36 is an easy to sail, forgiving, traditional design boat for coastal cruising and even some low-key racing.

I own a 1985 C36. If you have any questions about it e-mail me at chrisalbertson90278@yahoo.com

None of these boats have the performance of a J105 nor would I buy a C36/C38 if my plans were to sell the house and become a full time cruiser and take off to the South Pacific

[lancesalmonsen]

Jeff,
I am a three Catalina boat owner, having owned a 22, then a 30 and now a 36MKII.
I wouldn''t have bought three of them if I had quality issues with the boat(s).
I have found them to be a quality boat and I have been very pleased with them.
I have had some warranty issues but I must tell you that Catalina has always responded in a positive way.
When I asked to speak to Gerry Douglas, they put me right through to him.
I have put my 36 thru some rough sailing up here in the Northeast and she has performed magnificently.
A very good friend of mine purchased a Beneteau 36CC at the same time that I purchased my Catalina. A year later his boat was still not completely commissioned. He had many problems dealing with Europe.
SO, after all is said and done, there are more than enough stories to go around.
But to single out Catalina as an inferior boat is not only unfair, it is untrue.
I can assure you that in my case, Catalina has made me three OUTSTANDING boats.

[Quida123]

denr,

I find it difficult to believe that Catalina would ship a boat out of the Factory like that. For one wouldn''t it be noticed by the Freight people when it sits on the flat bed. Plus there are two rudders.....didn''t he notice them 1 foot lower?! What about at the marina, the guy blocking the boat would find it close to impossible with out having the rudder hit!?!

Something doesn''t sound right in your story, do you have any pictures? I know that many Catalina rudders are about the same depth as the wing keel. (yes I will grant you that this is not conducive to running aground, but that is not that same as saying that a boat is shipped with a rudder 1 foot lower! )


What about the owner, I would notice that immediately? What kind of sailor friend do you have that didn''t notice that? I would find that next to impossible. Whether it was or not, what the heck is the guy doing hitting a reef?

What I suspect is that the guy hit the reef and is trying to blame anyone but himself--- you my freind are only telling the version of the story from a skipper that ran his boat up on a reef. What you are doing is gullibly buying into your freinds myth and excuses.

Many of your other objections like tracks for the headsail cars are not long enough for a 100% jib are probably true, but that is easily remedied and many people cutomize and modify boats to suit their needs.

But when you say that this was "eating him up financially, repair after repair (mostly stemming from the original design and build quality) thats a bunch of horse-hockey !. For one, being stupid enough to run up on some reefs is NOT the blame of Catalina (maybe that is where his keel stub cracks came from !?!) and most of the other things you listed should not put one in the poor house when someone spends the kind of money he did buying that boat.

I am not saying these things didn''t happen, but some are these claims are *very* suspect. There are just way too many inconsistencies in your posts. You often posts statements without knowing the "true" facts and so your ramblings are greatly diminished . All people need to do look back through the archives for proof.