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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
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  #41  
Old 05-14-2003
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Stede is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

So now, the Catalina debate has gotten into the name calling stage? Besides me learning some new words,I find no value in it ;^) Reading the posts today I couldn''t help not to notice what an ugly mess it all is.There are obviously two very separate camps on this issue. As I''ve checked out this board over the last year or so, I''ve learned quite a few things from some of Jeff H''s comments. It''s always amused me how people will ask his OPINION on different boats,and he always responds with his OPINION,regardless of whether it''s good or bad. When his OPINION is different than others, he''s been attacked on this board more than once.It amazes me that he still chooses to participate on the board and contribute. He stated his OPINION on this issue,and why he formed his OPINION.Others felt differently and stated their OPINIONS. I suggest it be left at that and the board move on.
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  #42  
Old 05-14-2003
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cmcallaster is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

I have owned two new Catalinas, a 34 MKII and a 36 MKII and have been pleased with both. And yes they are productions boats, but after going to boatshows and comparing with the other production boats we don''t even consider the others. I have owned Hunters, including a new 33.5. Feature for feature the Catalina is a better deal and I saw no quality differences between them, other than being dismassed a month after taking the delivery of the Hunter 33.5 because the dealer did not properly rig the boat. Both of my new Catalinas had minor glitches (so did my new Lexus) when we purchased them but they have always been handled promptly by the dealer (Dunbar Sales) and when I have contacted Frank Butler and Gerry they have been responsive, busy but responsive. The key is a good dealer because anything as complex as a curiser this size has the potential for problems. If I want flawless quality I would go to Island Packet and spend a $100K more for the same size boat - but I have to work for a living. I am sure horror stories exist for any boat, my bet is that one or two bad seeds are used to overdramatize the quality issue -- on any boat. Ask owners, they know the truth because they live with it. We have had our Catalina''s in heavy seas and cruised a lot with them and I am very happy. Be careful when analyzing comments to understand the (n) or number of the sample size, one really ticked off customer will dramatize a problem to the point where others are overreacting and using words like "henchmen" to make things look worse. Sorry for the long message, but go to the owners sites and post a question there. If you haven''t owned one, then everything is "hear say."
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  #43  
Old 05-14-2003
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mattjo is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Amen Stede.

I am a very happy Catalina owner. In my search for a boat, I was happy to have bumped in to Jeff_H''s OPINION, which aided me in my due diligence. My diligence led me to discount his opinion.

This is no place for personal attacks. Those who express their opinions in a negative manner only serve to negate their opinions when viewed by clear minded people.

To Gary K -
1) Consider all opinions here w/a grain of salt. It''s a bulletin board. You don''t know us.
2) If you buy new, find a GOOD dealer
3) If buying used, seek out current owners. Take the boat for a sail. Get a GOOD surveyor.
4) Get the Practical Sailor review. A good unbiased opinion.
5) Check out the owners group email lists and websites.

Best of luck to you.
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  #44  
Old 05-14-2003
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GordMay is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

I wonder how may informed opinions have been discouraged by the personal diatribes that have been Jeff_H''s reward for spending the time to share some annecdotal information & his opinions?
Any discourse that does NOT elicit widely differing opinions, hasn''t much educational value.
Obviously not many "dialecticians" here.
Good bye.
Gord

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  #45  
Old 05-14-2003
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gerryn926 is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Yea, it is a crying shame that the owners of these boats are countering a bunch of lies. If you were going to buy a ford would you ask a chevy owner''s opinon? I think not, just observe the way Calvin feels about the competition, he pees all over their logo. In this case not only does Jeff not own a catalina, he doesn''t even own a competitor. He just "sails on one". This is even less an informed opinion. Anyone can sit around docks and listen to gossip, which is typically negative. It has been said before and bears repeating, if you want usefull info, ask the people who own and use the product.

So do not ask if you aren''t ready to hear both sides, even if both sides are heated.

Gerry
Catalina 36 owner
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  #46  
Old 05-14-2003
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catalina36_592 is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Just another non-existent Catalina owner here. I looked for a boat for about 4 years before actually purchasing my ''86 C-36. For my intended use and budget nothing could beat it. I''ve been very happy with it and have had no problems. I''ve actually had several unsolicited offers on it that were 10K more than I paid. Not bad. It''s nice to know that when I am ready to move up to a bigger Catalina I should have no problem selling!!
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  #47  
Old 05-14-2003
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tsenator is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Jeff,

I have been a participant and contributor to this list for a while. I have come to respect your points of view and thoughts on the dynamics of boats. I have learned a few things from some of your posts and disagreed with other points. Your first post was fine, it was your one single point of view and thats ok.

But you know what? With this last post YOU BLEW IT .

The sailnet message board (like many others) becomes a forum for such a very, very small number of boaters. It becomes a place with a very narrow point of view and posters post in self-aggrandizement glory (you know what I mean - its the same at the CWBB - you are there too). I would dare to say that its the same 20-30 people posting over and over again. With one or two "newbies" a week to drop in and ask questions.

The same 20 posters does NOT, the boating community make ! That is such an unlearned, dangerous & myopic view. I dare say that the total posters of these boards amount to maybe .000001% of the total boating community. And to "assume" that these previous posters were not individual Catalina owners is dangerous and wrong ! So what if these people were not in the member''s directory.....who the hell cares? That member directory isn''t the social listings from Greenwich Conn. Its not important to be in there, except for the few that have no better use of their time and are computer savvy and care to do so.

I happen to belong to the Sailnet Catalina email lists (there are multiple ones) and I can say for a fact that every one of these posters are real individual Catalina owners & contributing posters over there. Jeff, thinking that the boating world begins and ends at this board (or the CWBB) is stupid ! And by doing so you are creating a homogenized vacuum of information of which you are becoming part of. Continuing in this vein only continues to atrophy knowledge and experiences, like a sailor that only sails in his small bay, never venturing out into different seas and conditions.

And YES there ARE many, many, MANY happy Catalina owners out there, many more than the same few people that posted comments on here. So Jeff, you asked on your first post "Look if there are Catalina owners that have better warranty experiences or who have been through the same kind of negative experience, let them post here". Could it possibly be that you "laid down the gauntlet", so to speak, and asked for people with positive Catalina experiences to respond and you were not prepared for all the responses, in such a quick, forceful and resounding way? Could it possibly be, that perhaps, someone from this list saw your first request and posted it on the Sailnet Lists for comments? So Jeff, do not "assume" too much, it might get you in trouble! Do some research, go into all the Catalina Sailnet Lists and see who these people are. In my mind you need to retract your statement....you were "Stone Cold Wrong". (And the Catalina lists are still a very small percentage of Catalina owners -- there are many many more very satisfied that .)

Sorry, and this might bug you, but when it comes to positive Catalina experiences, you are out far numbered & your very small experience might be totally contrary to the other 99% of owners out there. Not saying that Catalina doesn''t drop the ball once in a while (It does), but your one comment and experience has to be put in perspective.


Oh.....and one more thing you lose a LOT of credibility by advising someone to" go aboard a bunch of 10 year old Hunters, Catalinas" . Earlier in your posts you claimed that Hunter has improved its quality over the past few years (which I will tend to agree). But to say that a 1992 Hunter has better quality than a similar 1992 Catalina is a LAUGH !. If anything the early 90''s is when the worse Hunters came out, and its funny because I recall a lot of your previous posts saying the same thing.

Respectfully,
Tom
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  #48  
Old 05-14-2003
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drynoc is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

The invective on this post has gotten out of hand. It is entirely possible that JeffH is wrong about the Catalina situation as a whole, but it is also quite possible that he is among the most knowledgeable people on this site. He is asked frequently for his opinion on topics, and gives his opinion, nearly always stating that it is his opinion or based on his own observations. His biases are out there for frequent readers to see because he states them himself. None of this makes him a "blowhard" or any of the other names he has been called here. And no, I do not know him personally.
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  #49  
Old 05-14-2003
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tsenator is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

GordMay and drynoc,

If you investigate a bit closer, many of the "invectives" posted on this board towards Jeff were AFTER he claimed that these people that posted (incorrectly) were NOT real people, but rather a "fabricated a bunch of fictitious personalities", as he claimed -- he screwed up and he was wrong.

Maybe it was because all those real people took great umbrage at that elitist attitude.

And back to your question Gordon " I wonder how may informed opinions have been discouraged" by the small few on this board that dominate this board by shear pomposity and incorrect, misleading and invective strewn posts (You know we could name a few....denr). As I said before, I don''t think Jeff deserves to be singled out and yes, of course, his opinions and knowledge are nice to have on the board. But as I see it it was Jeff who "cast the first stone". If you noticed it was Jeff that first said "NICE F*CKING TRY! ".....seems to me he owes all these people an apology for discounting their real and satisfied Catalina experiences.

The sad thing is I think that he will not use and gather this overwhelming information and use it in his future posts about Catalina and Warrantee issues and satisfied customers. But rather he will continue ad naseum with the same one perspective and story that has used over and over in the past.

Respectfully,
Tom
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  #50  
Old 05-14-2003
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tsenator is on a distinguished road
Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Drynoc,

Just one small point. It was Jeff that called the posters "blowhards" (by saying these were "fabricating multiple blowhard personalities")

Not the other way around.
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