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  #61  
Old 05-15-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

You, on the other hand, are a real idiot.

They''re twice as good for three times the investment.

Charlie P.
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  #62  
Old 05-15-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Chucky P Cheese....calm your storm buddy, did you let your lithium script run out again. And are we still attending those anger management meetings every Wednesday night?
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  #63  
Old 05-15-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Jeff--a big problem is that people are always ready to list their problems, never the things that go RIGHT in their lives (or boats) ...The type of sailboat that works for me and my family, cruising along, Mom having a margarita, well, it might not be for you. And truthfully, I don''t want to race, or circumnavigate ,so those boats aren''t going to work for me.
Thanks for the apology, and lets all move on...
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  #64  
Old 05-15-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Jeff H and Denr,

You guys are a couple of clowns! It must be nice to have little or no life so that you can sit behind a computer screen all day and bash other peoples boats. Your wee wee''s must either be real small or your mommy didn''t teach you any self confidence (small D syndrome). What''s the matter did you over pay for your "quality" coastal cruiser! For at least a few years I have been lurking here and ocasionally posting (when I have something constructive to say). To sit there and crown yourself the be all end all "king" of the Sail Net B.B. is really funny and I have not been laughing with you these last couple of years but at you (not always, some times you know what you are talking about, but mostly you just bash everything). I have logged over 14,000 miles of sailing in my life (sailing before I could walk), my family or I have owned over 26 sailboats and numerous power boats, been reading sailing mags and have also been a lifelong study of boats. One thing I have learned is that "you get what you pay for" in boats is not always true.

The following is a list of boats my family has owned or I have owned personally that we or I would never buy again. Will not buy again list--- J-Boat, Hinckley (Owned a very well built pilot 35 but lots of propietary components that Hinckley rapes you on as well as their maintenance also very very wet boats), Cape Dory (Andy Vavolitis is very nice and has good support but there were so many corners cut on my boat that I lost my shirt when I sold it (things that had been purposly hidden by previous owner so it would not kill the deal and my surveyor never caught them), Certain O''Day''s but not all (owned three different O''Days), Sabre (I owned a Sabre 28 and was treated so badly by the factory (which is 30 minutes from my house) that I cringe every time I see an owner of an older Sabre. They only want to deal with the rich folk buying the new boats! Caliber - the caliber we owned flexed so badly that the gel coat on the interior of the bow started to chip off and had numerous rudder problems!

The list below is boats my family or I would buy again. Tartan - Had a great 27 in the early seventies very nice sailing and relatively dry for it''s day. Pearson - have owned two pearsons over the years a 30 and a 26 both great boats that sailed well and were virtually maintenance free. Island Packet - I don''t think I would ever buy one again if speed were an issue but the factory really stands behind their product. Morris - My dad owned a Morris 26 that was just incredible + Tom and Cuyler Morris are incredible to deal with. Not snobby like the folks down the road at Hinckley they would go out of their way to save you $20.00..etc.etc. Erickson - Had and Erickson in the late seventies. I don''t recall doing anything but painting the bottom on that boat and made money when we sold it! Catalina - I am now on my second Catalina and plan to stay with them for a for a long long time! I have finally found the right mix between price, sailing charactistics, ease of maintenance, room, factory support, resale value, and factory support. I, like you guys, always snubbed my nose at most production boats until I sailed on a neighbors Catalina 30. We bought one the next year! I sold that boat three years later and made $12,600.00 on it and only spent $3000.00 in upgrades! On top of the at my boat sold for full asking price in less than four weeks -$500.00 at closing for a new cutlas bearing found during the survey. When it came time to move up I was only looking at Catalina. We have had nothing but great times and great dealings with the folks at Catalina! Here are two real examples: I needed to replace my original prop shaft on my C-36 and checked with the local prop shop - 460.00 with coupling and a four week lead time! I called Catalina and they shipped me a new Stainless (Aquamet 22) shaft and faced coupling, from their in house machine shop, from CA to ME (plus they pulled my original 1986 build sheet to double check the correct shaft length) in four days for $135.00! I launched my boat on April 17, of this year and realized I had a small leak in my fuel tank. I called Catalina on Monday of this week and ordered a new tank kit. When I got home on Tuesday the tank was on my door step $329.00 (with sending unit, new mount cradles and all hose barbs shut off valve etc.)!!! I aready have the tank half installed and will be sailing by Saturday afternoon. What caused the leak? A stainless screw rolled under the tank and caused galvanic corrosion and eventually the pin hole..

By the way I am for real and not some made up Catalina owner. You can check out my web site if you don''t beleive me! http://home.maine.rr.com/halekai/

If you look closely at the above lists you will notice so called "great boats" listed under will not buy again and so called "cheap" boats listed under "will buy again". As for Catalina not supporting warranty issues thats a lot of hot air! Sure some owners probably called up ranting and raving and put the factory on the defense but I have had nothing but good things to say about Catalina. I got what I paid for a great coastal cruiser with incredible re-sale value in fact I have a buyer waiting for my boat when I''m ready to give her up and I should make close to (according to recent sales) $15,000.00. When I bought my boat it had been on the market for 48 hours!!
What do you guys sail????
-Rodd C.
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  #65  
Old 05-15-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

This suddenly seems to be a popular question around here. For the record I sail a Farr 11.6 (Farr 38).The 11.6''s are an early 1980''s era performance cruiser. My boat was built in South Africa and then sailed single-handed to Annapolis from SA. She has spent most of her life being raced hard. She works very well for my purposes but I would never try to say that the 11.6 is the ideal boat for everyone. I was looking for a fast, well built single-hander that sails well in light air and would work equally well as a coastal cruiser or going offshore as well and she easily meets my needs.

I paid roughly the same price that you would pay for a Catalina 36 or 38 of the same age and condition. After 10 years of hard racing my boat sold for roughly the same price that it sold for new roughly 20 years ago. The Catalina 38 and 36 have roughly the same layout as the 11.6''s but have a little less room than the 11.6. The Catalina 38''s are roughly 5000 lbs heavier and the 38''s are roughly 3000 lbs heavier than the Farr. The Catalinas have a better layout for coastal cruising with a family. The 11.6 has a better layout for offshore racing or offhore cruising. The Catalinas carry a little more fuel and a lot less water. (I really would not mind having a bigger fuel tank.) The big contrasts occur when you look at construction details. The Farr does not have any liners except on the over head. When you open lockers on the Catalina 36, at the least on the more recent one that I was on, everything is a lot more finished looking than on the Farr where you are looking at the inside of hull painted out with an eposxy paint. The Farr has closely spaced hand glassed in longitudinal stringer and deep section transverse frames. This gives the Catalinas more headroom but the Farr a lot more strength and stiffness.

The other big difference between the Farr and the Catalina is in their relative speeds. with a PHRF rating of 87 the 11.6 is roughly 60 seconds a mile faster than the Catalina 36 and 40 seconds a mile faster than the Catalina 38. The Farr also offers a more comfortable motion in a seaway. The motion comfort and speed were more important to be than the slightly greater comfort found in some of the production boats of that size and price. We each have our priorities.

As to my time posting on BB''s like this one and getting a life. I have a very full life, I don''t need another one, thank you very much. In my life I am an architect with my own practice. In my spare time I serve on a variety of regional and local urban planning committees. I keep my boats at my home which makes getting out for a sail very convenient. I read a lot but watch very little TV. I do spend way too much time on the internet, usually surfing and posting over breakfast and before I turn in.

In a good year, according to my log, I can be out on the water over a 100 days a year. Most years out there at least 75 days a year. I mostly race on other people''s boats and so I end up sailing on a lot of boats in a year besides my own. I enjoy teaching sailing and coaching, which puts me on a lot more boats. I like to help folks so I end up working on or sorting out a whole lot more boats. I typically sail around a 800 to 1000 miles a year which after 40 years of sailing adds up to a whole lot of miles, some offshore but most have been on the US east coast. I have designed and built boats both to my own designs and have worked for well known yacht designers.

And that brings me to why I spend as much time as I do on sailing bulletin boards. When I was growing up and learning to sail, I had a lot of kind help and advice from people who had been sailing for many years before me. To this day I still get a lot of new information from people kind enough to share thier knowledge, wisdom and experience with me. I am a strong believer in giving back the gift that has been given to me over the years by being helpful when and where I can. That is why I come here. I am not an elitist as charged. I am by very nature a relativist. I look at things in relative terms. When I comment on one boat or another it is in relative terms; relative to its price and purpose, relative to similar boats, and relative to the broader spectrum of boats that are out there. I make no claims except that my comments are based on my opinions and my opinion of boats is based on my own experiences and on conversations with owners of those boats. Frankly if I gore somebody''s sacred ox in the process so be it. If you don''t like my posts feel free to skip them or explain why you think they are wrong. And if someone can explain to me why I am wrong on something, that too is OK with me because that is also just another way for me to learn. I have nothing to prove here. I come here to be helpful and to learn and nothing more. I have gotten too old and too happy with my life to care who I impress or, to a much lesser extent, who I piss off with my opinions.

Anyway, enough for tonight.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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  #66  
Old 05-15-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

I appreciate the stories people have related on here. And I think anybody looking at getting a boat will get some good information and I think its obvious that the vast majority have had very good experiences.

Will all due respect to Jeff. I think he said what he believed to be, from what he heard from some people he has met. I also believe that he might live near a lousy dealer that doesn''t know how to ''go to bat'' for their buyers when dealing with the Catalina Factory. (No boat comes from the factory perfectly). We have all heard so many good stories throughout the country from such great dealers that his post seems grotesquely out of place.

But most of all of his biggest complaint was post purchase support for new Catalina buyers in his area that, for what ever reason. (But I still beleive most people only hear from people that want to complain and you never hear from the other thousand satisfied new Catalina purchasers in that area)

But Gary was asking about a used boat - and if there were any kinks they would have been worked out by then. And at that point a Catalina is a great boat....at any price. Hell yeah I had issues. Leaking chainplates or opening ports, Doors sticking, blah, blah, blah.....minor stuff. These could have been checked a little better at the factory. But in my mind (and most knowledgable boat buyers out there) its not worth paying $100,000 more and I feel the few people out there STILL DON''T GET IT. Design, feature for feature, Size & Quality of Hardware and items included, etc. Catalina gets you more boat for the money....with or without the fact of whether a small few don''t get satisfaction from Frank.

I''ll state it again. The Catalina 36 is one of the sweetest Coastal Cruisers out on the market and I challenge anyone out there to show me a better one with the same features and sailing manners in the same class (I haven''t owned the other Catalina''s so I won''t comment on them like MANY of the people seem to do on Bulletin Boards. I feel talking to people who have one does not warrant as much weight in ones argument as someone that lives with his boat day after day, year after year).

Respectfully,
Tom S
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  #67  
Old 05-15-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

No, Denr, I don''t go to anger management class, I go sailing. You should try it sometime; not just talk about it. we spent 65 days on the boat last year. 68 the year before that. And we''re in NY with a 6 month season. I confess I mostly day sail and weekend. I don''t need a boat with 150 gallons of diesel. It would get stale. I burned 5 gallons last year. I sail on the Great Lakes and Finger Lakes, so waste tankage capacity is more important than fresh water storage. I can''t discharge overboard. I don''t need self steering as I don''t go long distances without a watch anyway. Too many other boats. An electric autopilot is fine for me. I pay a fellow to come to our marina and he, my wife and myself raise and lower our mast twice a year for $65 in his labor. Catalina''s dual lowers and single spreaders make that much easier.

So, do I need a quarter-million dollar sailboat for my sailing requirements. Nope. I need a light cruiser that sails well in light to medium air, is cheap to maintain, has enough storage and room for my wife and I for up to two weeks of cruising. And a boat with manageable enough canvas that it does not require two middle-aged people to work so hard at it that we''re sore all the next week. I work for a small company and my boss about has an embalism when I ask for more than a week off at a time anyway, so most often my max cruise is 9 days. I actually prefer four day long extended weekends.

Would I sail it across the ocean? Not a chance. But I plan on retiring early and enjoying it more in a few years because I''m not dragging a financial ball and chain around. My 2000 model 34 foot boat will be paid off in another 2 years without forcing me to sacrifice or scrimp. I like that. I like that a lot.

I found the boat that suits my needs and I am very happy with it. Is it a little plain and production-boat Cloroxy. Yep. Not a scrap of wood above decks except the hatchboards. But that doesn''t make a boat sail any better antway. Does it have eye-popping cabinetry. Nope, just plain spartan versatility - though what is there is functional and quality teak or teak laminates. Could I justify paying $100K more for a boat like the beautiful Sabre 362 that might walk me in all conditions. Nope. But then, I don''t race and when I''m on the boat I''m already where I want to be, so there''s no pressing hurry. I could have picked up a go-fast powerboat for even less than my Catalina 34. I knew exactly what I wanted in a boat and had a realistic idea of my sailing and cruising requirements.

OK. Your turn to make fun of my name or whatever spins your little wobbly wheels. Or, you could debate like a grown-up and we''ll talk boats.

Charlie P.
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  #68  
Old 05-16-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Charlie - you said:
Could I justify paying $100K more for a boat like the beautiful Sabre 362 that might walk me in all conditions.

What did you mean ''walk me''.

(This is admittedly OT, but I didn''t get that one...)

Mike
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  #69  
Old 05-16-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Sorry. Beach Boys era expression. "Walk" as in "walk away from." In extreme cases: "walk away from like she was standing still."

Common usage: "On the downwind leg that J/40 just walked away from us."

Charlie P.
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Old 05-16-2003
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Option: Catalina 36 and 38

Charlie,

Don''t waste your time with that witless wonder Denr, he is smegma.
He has nothing to say of any worth and he knows it. That''s why his posts are, for the most part, brainless.

He is old and angry at himself and the world for the choices he makes. He won''t admit to many of his numerous sailing faux pas over the years. Denr when are you going to fess up with that boating accident and your trying to cover it up? Of course we know that you will deny it left and right on here, but some of us know the truth and how incompetent of a boater you really are. Just because you took forever and passed a captains test, doesn''t mean you aren''t a lousy boater and person.
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