Option: Catalina 36 and 38

[Denr]

Thank you so much everyone for sharing your life’s story with us, I''ve been on the edge of my seat waiting for this day for a long time. I would love to share MY life story with every one of you but as someone astutely pointed out, I don''t have a life! I just wanted all of you to know that in real life I am a Catalina dealer, and all of this rhetoric was concocted to whip up a Catalina frenzy so that you would all go out and by another Catalina. Ha-ha my plan worked flawlessly you lemmings!

Don''t believe everything you read on the internet!

[Sailmc]

Enough with the attacks on Denr. Alright... everyone knows he''s an "A" hole but he''s a damn funny "A" hole and I enjoy his comments without taking them too seriously.

[Delirious]

OK. He''s all yours. I''m going back to the Catalina List.

I thought at first that it was just a case of a regionally poor statistical sampling and Catalina had a bad showing in some region. Now I see that is not the case, but blindness caused by where he chooses to keep his head. My degree is in Education and Human Development, but it did not cover alimentary education. He seems to be happy enough in darkness, but I fear he may someday suffocate.

Oh well, you can''t reach them all.

Gary K (remember the original query on this thread?): If you still wish input on Catalinas you should visit the Catalina List on Sailnet''s Discussion Lists. That goes for anyone else, too.

http://members.sailnet.com/email_lists/index.cfm

See you all on the water.

Charlie P.

[JWag]

Read the last line in Denr''s post and then you will get it. I consider his role on this board to be one of making sure we don''t take ourselves to seriously. Things started to get a little self-righteous during this thread, so I think his dose of "reality" was probably needed.

If you are secure in your choice of boat because it meets your requirements, that''s great. However, once you enter a discussion on absolute comparisons, put your thick skin on because you are otherwise likely to get slighted. Absolute statements like "sweetest sailing 36 foot coastal cruiser" and "most popular production sailboat ever made" are going to get challenged when presented in a broad context.

[tsenator]

((ahem)..

JWag. I understand what you are trying to say, but unless you haven''t been around for long or you just don''t see it. Denr''s posts are way beyond " making sure we don''t take ourselves too seriously" They are vindictive, mean spirited, crude, misleading and many times totally wrong. (Anyone remember he started bashing Catalina when someone said one of their boats were designed by S&S design -- BTW of course he was wrong). Not that that even matters, but its just his terrible instant knee-jerk reaction to anything, especially anything to do with boats he "deems" to trash that day. And you know what, people come on here to learn something and when statements are made that are totally false, it only hurts the person trying to learn something. He sounds like a real immature adult. But when things did start to get self-righteous, it was because the facts, as some boat owners know them to be, were completely 180 degrees out of sync with what was posted. And I ask you " so they shouldn''t respond"? And often, there is no "dose of "reality" when you are referring to Denr, just crap throwing on the wall, just like Johnnie Cochran at the OJ Simpson trial.

As for the "most popular production sailboat ever made" statement I cringed when I read that too. Maybe in the top 2 or 3, but Jeff corrected that before I had a chance.

And you MUST start reading exactly what is written and NOT try and paraphrase the wording. It is instances like this that causes problems. It was "I" that wrote "The Catalina 36 is one of the sweetest Coastal Cruisers out on the market". It takes a combination of things to make a boat "sweet". As a FACT it is the most produced 36 foot sailboat ever built. (There must be a good reason that ~2300 over 20 years have been built and there is still a waiting list and good ones don''t stay on the market long !!)

I did NOT say "sweetest ''sailing'' 36 foot coastal cruiser" . I don''t claim it to be the "best" sailing 36 out there, and I never will. That is a tough absolute to adhere to and it all depends on the conditions & where you will be sailing. But what I did say is "show me a better one with the same features and sailing manners in the same class". Obviously a Custom Tripp 37 (which I have some long distance cruising and racing experience on) or a boat like Jeff''s Farr 37 are very nice sailing boats (of course there are others). But to me both of those are much more orientated towards racing and I would not even compare their comfort and amenities and layout for Coastal Cruising to my C36 (My Girlfriend and kids on those boats would be in each others "space" way too much, the traveller smack dab in the middle of the cockpit, etc, etc).

It was not an absolute statement and for you to imply that it was is totally wrong and if anyone actually read all the posts with a fair and balance mind, they would see that most Catalina owners realize that their boats are not a Hinckley, etc, etc (as you see written over and over). And in truth Catalina owners are much closer in belief to what Jeff affectionately refers to himself as ...a "relativist". And from a relative perspective we believe that, dollar for dollar, feature for feature, that Catalina one of the tops on the list. The difference is that some people want to discount what some other boat owners feel and experience.

[Jeff_H]

Tom (TSenator)you hit the nail on the head as I see it on most counts. One minor point here, I actually own a Farr 38 (technically a Farr 11.6) not a Farr 37. The Farr 37''s started life as IOR race boats. The Farr 38''s started life as family coastal and offshore cruisers. They proved to be good race boat in their day but that was not their intent. They actually have almost the same interior layout as the Catalina 36''s and 38''s but their hulls shape, rig, engineering, and deck layout and hardware choices, were clearly designed to provide very high performance for that era. Although you can still race these boats pretty successfully under PHRF, at the club level anyway, they really are not race boats. Most Americans are not all that aware that before Bruce Farr moved to Annapolis, he designed a whole series of wonderful, very high performance, coastal/offshore cruisers. The 11.6 was one of the more successful somewhere around 150 of these boats built world wide. (I also realize that is a tiny number compared to Catalina but when you consider that the boats were mostly built in New Zealand and South Africa that is a pretty big production run in a small sailing market.)

Regards
Jeff

BTW By any chance did you ever live in Englewood, New Jersey? I grew up with two brothers Vincent and Tom Senator.

[JWag]

Tom:

With regard to Denr, I''m only suggesting that you not take him too seriously. I''ve owned two boats of the brands that he routinely bashes (Beneteau and Jeanneau), but I''m secure in why I bought them and I don''t let his remarks get to me. Over 25 years, I''ve owned 6 boats ranging from a Prindle 16 to our current Jeanneau 41, logging over 35,000 miles in the process, so I appreciate the differences in price, build quality and suitability of the variety of boats that are out there.

These discussions about the merits of one brand versus another are always time bombs waiting to explode. This one certainly filled that bill.

[Bluesmoods]

I have a Catalina 350.. Love it and for a "production" boat. I think it rates very high.

I really (this is my opinion) don''t see the same degree quality level in Hunter Boats at all. I was a broker selling both Hunter and Catalina.. (Lot''s of them..).
I also Sold C&C, J/Boat and Cape Dory..

Anyway.. Just had to add my two cents here as I do exist and don''t know or care if I am in the member directory.

[doubleplay]

question for all of you gentlemen comparing apples to oranges...
Would you buy a Catalina if a Sabre or Tartan would be similarly priced? Respectfully..