Swan 44 vs Swan 441

[silli1971]

Anaybody having ideas, experience cruising/circumnavavigation wit these boats?

[tommays]

Which ever one does NOT have screwed down teak decks

[mitiempo]

I would take the 44 - always loved the looks of that design. S&S at their best.

But as Tommays posted the teak decks (which I believe they all had but I could be wrong) could be a big issue.

[CBinRI]

My recollection is that the 44 is a Sparkman & Stephens design and the 441 is a Ron Holland design. Both will be extremely well-built and relatively fast blue water cruisers. Between the two, I would lean toward the 44, because I think there is much more of a resale market for the S&S Swans, which have a very devoted following. Holland did not design for Nautor for very long before Swan went to Frers so Holland does not have the following (with Swans) that S&S developed. Just my two cents. (In the interest of full disclosure, I have an S&S designed Swan.)

Here is a good web-site, although very biased in favor of S&S.

S&S Swan Association

[tdw]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

I would take the 44 - always loved the looks of that design. S&S at their best.

But as Tommays posted the teak decks (which I believe they all had but I could be wrong) could be a big issue.

Fabulous looking things no doubt and apparently wonderful sailing boats but for cruising I cannot see how that companionway arrangement could be anything other than impractical, not to say annoying. It is virtually impossible to rig a dodger that will provide the helmsman with any real protection and clambering up and down that ladder would drive me crazy.

[CBinRI]

Originally Posted by tdw

Fabulous looking things no doubt and apparently wonderful sailing boats but for cruising I cannot see how that companionway arrangement could be anything other than impractical, not to say annoying. It is virtually impossible to rig a dodger that will provide the helmsman with any real protection and clambering up and down that ladder would drive me crazy.

It is all a matter of preferences, I suppose. One thing that can be said for the companionway system is that it is extremely safe, in that it is extremely unlikely to be flooded. I never found it to be a burden and it is part of what allows for such an ample aft cabin. I will concede that the dodger is small and does not offer as much protection from the helm as some other designs, but that is part of what gives it its unique and sleek Swan look. And I can stay dry by steering the boat by way of a handheld control for the autopilot that is located at the companionway. I assume the 44 has that feature as well.

[mitiempo]

I see that as well. I have neighbors with an Albin 42 by Kaufmann & Ladd with almost the same arrangement. They have a dodger over the cabintop hatch. The cockpit is open.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by CBinRI

It is all a matter of preferences, I suppose. One thing that can be said for the companionway system is that it is extremely safe, in that it is extremely unlikely to be flooded. I never found it to be a burden and it is part of what allows for such an ample aft cabin. I will concede that the dodger is small and does not offer as much protection from the helm as some other designs, but that is part of what gives it its unique and sleek Swan look. And I can stay dry by steering the boat by way of a handheld control for the autopilot that is located at the companionway. I assume the 44 has that feature as well.

Oh look, I've had mates who have owned various Swans over the years who have absolutely no complaints and I well appreciate the safety aspects of such an arrangement, its just that I know it would drive me crazy. The auto pilot remote is also a valid alternative to staying out in the cold.

I do have to admit that I am one of those who sails to get to a destination and is then likely to stay put for as long as possible. I think it changes your perspective on what features matter most.

[silli1971]

Many thanks for your opinnions which I appreciate a lot. It seems that it is hard to get experience of the Swan 441 suits for cruising and live aboard when circumnavigating.

Silli

[mitiempo]

I think the 441 is probable an excellent boat to sail as well. I think, as some others have also said, that the S&S 44 is a prettier boat. As a matter of fact I prefer the look of the older S&S designs for Swan before the wedge deck made an appearance.

As far as suitability for a circumnavigation, the layout is a very personal choice.
Rigging can certainly be changed to suit. But they are headsail driven as most were at that time and while racing there were a lot of hands to help with that. That goes for both designs.