too much too fast?

[jbarros]

ok, as with all items, this is a ballancing act, but I''d like to get some opinions from people who''ve gotten into the sitation before.

I have a perfectly little acceptable 20 footer which I love. (which now has a head. WHOOT! I can stay out all day now )

but I realy like the tritons, and may have a chance to get get one soon.

I''ve dedicated myself to sailing at least once a week so I keep building my skills, and I''m only reciently out of debt, so those are two major influences.

now my options are:

1.) sell my Josie, possibly dont buy the triton, be boatless untill I get something new, save money on slip fees in the mean time, but loose sailing.

2.) buy the boat by going into debt, sell Josie afterwards, in the mean time pay double slip fees, and have one boat sitting around not getting used, pay the debt off slowly and then finaly cash it out when my Josie sells.

Other important factors, are that the Triton is a bit larger, and I''m hoping to soon go liveabord if I do get her, so the overall cost will be a bit less, but untill I do, the cost to keep her docked, (and of course all my maintance costs, as she''s a much larger boat) will go up.

So, for you cats who''ve done the upgrade dance, what have you found works best for you?

Thanks.

-- James

[pblais]

It really is about the money.

Make sure you van sail no matter what else you do, but don''t go broke over it. You need to make the money work or it won''r be fun any more.

It''s not about what works best for us it''s about you. make darn well sure it''s still fun in the end.

[Stede]

Hey Jbarros,

I feel your anxiety, my brother of the cloth ;^) I too am itching to upgrade. I''m sure I will some time soon when I know the time is right. I could now if I really pushed things, but like you, I have a perfectly good boat that suits my needs at present. Until the time is right ( enough money saved to pay cash),I''m researching all the boats that look like they might fit my future needs.Sailors on this board have been a great help. It''s amazing how much you can learn about different boats, and how your views change about them. Some boats that I use to really think were great, aren''t as appealing to me anymore, and vice versa. Patience isn''t my strong suit.It''s really hard for me to stay with my plan, but I know it''s the right thing to do. If I had of upgraded before now, I''m sure I would''ve made a big mistake with the limited knowledge of boats that I had.I suggest that you keep the boat you have, keep sailing while building your skills, spend time to really check out the different boats that will meet your needs (make a list stating pros/cons), and keep saving until you have enough money to buy the boat that you want to live aboard.Good Luck!!

[slipacre]

Avoid debt if you can. Larger boats cost a lot more than small boats because all of a sudden you have more systems to keep up and hardware is bigger and more $. Having two boats is a royal pain in the pocket and can cause you to sell lower thanyou would otherwise. Also what will it cost to outfit/ fixup the new boat - often not cheap.
And there are lots and lots of used boats out there and will be when you are ready to get it. Prices often go down as a boat goes unsold...
todd V

[Stan S]

My advice/experience is different than the other reply''s. I had a 22 catalina and was casully looking for something a little bigger. When I came across the perfect boat for me I made an offer with deposit and understanding that I needed some time to sell my 22. My reasoning is that the financial loss from a quick sell of a smaller boat is less than getting in a hurry to buy a bigger boat because I am boatless at the time. Also look at total cost of the trade. Is the Triton a really good deal. More money for your 20 is not more money if you just put the difference in the next boat.


Stan

[KenD]

Try not to get in debt About the most pathetic person is the one that has a large boat and can''t afford to sail it anywhere.Big boats cost more exponentially than smaller boats to maintain. Check out This Old Boat Magizine for classic plastic before you walk the plank of larger debt load. I had a 22 catalina also (really cramped) then bought a 27 Hunter plenty of room thought I needed a 35 and bought one now I''m back to a 30 If experience means anything to you I''ve been there done that.Haveing said that theres a boat out there that will make your heart go pitter patter and like most of us you will ignore common sense and buy it anyway.Fair winds my friend keep sailing.

[maxcontax]

Good sailboats come in all sizes. You need to get to the one that is good for you. We all have different needs. That''s why there are so many out there. For me to really enjoy the sailing experience, the boat has to work in my world--the waters, the ease of use, the amenities, and how it sails. If the Triton is the next step up but not the ultimate boat, be sure you can afford it and it is popular locally, because you are going to sell it on your way to the best boat for you. Then again, you may be all ready there and don''t know it! The larger the boat, the more commitment in time and/or money.

[Jeff_H]

The other component of this discussion is the choice of boat in question. Tritons are 35 to 45 year old boats that were not all that well constructed to begin with. If you find one that has been put in good solid shape, with its systems upgraded, they are typically quite expensive for the amount of space or seaworthiness that they offer. If you find one that needs restoration, they are typically even more expensive by the time you put the boat in shape.

I look a deciding to buy a new boat as a process in which I start out by asking what is that I want out of a boat that I own, and if I had my druthers exactly waht are my goals and asperations. I then ask whether my current boat meets that need. If it comes close I make due. That results in some of my boats being having been owned for 11, 14, 20 years respectively.

If my current boat falls short I then start looking at those areas where it falls short and try to figure out how to adapt her to meet those short comings. I also look at the implications of buying another boat. I have no problem with going into debt to buy another boat. I have paid off quite a few boats in my life and have enjoyed sailing them for the years that I was making payments. (Then again I have my own business in a career that I like, live in a place that I really love and really have no desire to simply chuck it all and go "out there".)

To be frank, I went from a 28 footer to a 38 footer about a year nearly two years ago now, once you get a boat into shape the costs of ownership did go up but not as much as I had originally expected.

Jeff

[jbarros]

Jeff, I''m actualy realy supprised. I''ve found nothing saying that a triton wasnt a very solid boat, even if some of the other, later pearsons we''rent quit as stout. Specificly the ones built in Sausilito with the solid glass decks (no recoing, yhea!) they are smaller than most, but I''d not heard of any issues with them. Most of the people I''ve talked to havent even had blister problems. Of course, the systems are all old, and need to be replaced, but Most of them already have been by previous owners and others dont bother me too much (eg: ditching the atomic bomb for a relable outboard)


What I''ve got:

a 19'' sloop with a keel, but not enough weight down there that I''d trust her to go offshore. She''s a weekender, not a flicka.

What I''m looking for:

a liveaboard/cruiser with, in absolutley NO order at all:

Functional galley (small is ok, and I can live without refrigeration)

decent sailing (needs to be able to point, needs to be able to be sailed short handed if not single handed (single handability prefered))

Seaworthyness. (I want to safley cross oceans with this. I know this is primarily a function of crew, and not of boat, but some are better for the task than others)

and the possibility of showering below decks (I''m ok laying down a catch for this, also, this is the only one where I feel the triton falls short, but I think it can be arranged.)

I''m preferencial to tiller stearing, but wouldnt realy let it influence my decission unless all else were completley even.

Thats it. Those are my requirements. I''m 24, have the coresponding credit (minimal) and budget (somewhat less than minimal) If you could let me know what turns you off to the triton, and what you would suggest instead, I would apreciate it.

The only other boat I''ve sailed on that I was looking at in that price range is a catalina 27, which I realy wouldnt feel as comfortable on. I''ve seen the glass on a triton, and on the catalina.... yhea... twitch.

The main flaws with the triton that I''m aware of are:

1.) the cockpit drains have large pipes instead of seacocks. I would change this, and alot of people have.

2.) the atomic bomb, nuff said.

3.) they''re cramped compared to alot of other boats their size, which I can deal with.

4.) fractional rigs can be a pain in the arse to tune, but this isnt an issue too often I would think. (besides, I''m rather partial to the masthead rig that some of the later ones have.

What else am I not aware of?

Thanks.

-- James

[Jeff_H]

My family owned a Pearson Vanguard of the same era as the Tritons. We owned this boat in the 1960''s when it was only a few years old. I also spent a fair amount of time sailing on Tritons. In their day these early Pearsons were seen as the Hunter or Catalina''s of that era. They were built for a price and a lot of corners were cut. While the glass work was pretty heavy, the workmanship was crude. Large amounts of accelerator was used and cores taken from the hull and keel area showed large lenses of unreinforced resin or improperly wet out glass. The engineering on the Triton was really poor, with large unsupported panels in the hull. Wooden rudders which on later boats were poorly constructed either by traditional standards or by modern design standards. (The early Triton rudders were rumored to have been built by Hinkley in the same manner as you would build a wooden boat rudder but supposedly that proved to expensive so a cheaper less sturdy rudder was substituted.)

From a design standpoint these were designed as CCA era rule beater race boats, which meant that they were slow and wet, and really poor in a chop. They had heavily cut away forefoots and sternposts so are fin keeled with attached rudders (by the traditional definition of a fin keel which is a keel whose bottom is less than 50% of the length of the sail plan). This offers neither the virtues of a long keel or a fin keel.

Tritons are notorious for their weather helms and being tender when rigged as masthead rigs or with bowsprits when altered to reduce the weather helm. They don''t point well even when compared to similar boats of that era.

It''s funny, I don''t find your objections to the Triton objectionable. Actually, I like atomic 4''s. If you can get parts they are easy to work on, surprisingly reliable, and in the 42 years I have been sailing I have never actually heard of one blowing up (which I can''t say for either diesel powered sailboats with propane or outboard powered sailboats).

I don''t know who told you that fractional rigs are hard to tune but as a former rigger and as someone who has actually owned series of fractionally rigged boats for something approaching 25 years total, , both a traditional versions (Folkboat and C&C 22) and modern boats, fractional rigs are much easier to tune than masthead rigs.

That''s about all the time that I have tonight.

Jeff