Please Help Me Decided Which IOR Boat - Page 5 - SailNet Community
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post #41 of 45 Old 03-24-2011
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I really don't understand why you feel the need to debate the merits of a design group (Naval Architecture Firm) who was one of the most successful of their era. Cuthburtson has his roots in building boats since he was in his his late teens. Revise my comment to "Yacht Architects" if you wish:

The History of C&C
Originally Posted by Dan Spurr, Good Old Boat Magazine
A tale of two designers, three builders, and the publicly held company that crossed the Canadian border to compete with America's best racers and builders - and won.

C&C YACHTS, THE LARGEST-EVER builder of sailboats in Canada, was named for two of its founding partners, George Cuthbertson and George Cassian, both yacht designers. But the story of C&C Yachts runs far deeper, to George Hinterhoeller, to two other boatbuilding firms - Belleville Marine Yards and Bruckmann Manufacturing - and to a stockbroker who had the bright idea of bringing them all together to form a single company that would shape and profoundly affect the entire North American sailboat industry. A number of the company's innovative building techniques were widely adopted by others. C&Cs rakish designs and lightweight construction excelled on the racecourse and were cruised by many families around the Great Lakes and around the world.
Sorry, I think I made the mistake of saying that Cuthburtson worked for S&S (although his boats waxed their designs on several occasions), and he may not have been a Mechanical Engineer either (no reference to it in the above article). But he was one hell of a Yacht Designer (and some Engineers who revere his work might even be willing to grace him with the title "Naval Architect").

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 03-24-2011 at 12:29 AM.
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post #42 of 45 Old 03-24-2011
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I've deleted my posts on this thread because the thread was drifting off topic.
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post #43 of 45 Old 03-25-2011
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Just a thought for the OP. Just remember that running a 39' boat is expotentially more expensive than a 34'. Don't underestimate this cost. Price out a new halyard, traveller system, bottom paint, or headsail for a reality check.
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post #44 of 45 Old 03-30-2011
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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
You have described this as being a boat that you would like to race and cruise, but like many IOR boats neither of these are especially good boats for either. These were fast boats for their day and their racing rule, but their day and rule was nearly forty years ago. To be competitive, or even get around a race course safely in a breeze, these are both boats that take very skilled helmsmen and large, strong, skilled crews to race well and which are not very competitive without large (in number), high tech sail inventories. Boats like these lose speed easily but are hard to get back to speed and are a real handful in heavier going.

By the same token, they are not especially good cruising boats (although the C&C 39 is the better of the two) and neither are especially easy boats to sail short handed.

You might want to step back and rethink how you are approaching this. While I doubt that these are the only two convenient boats within your price range in your area at the moment, I would suggest that there is a reason that these boats relatively inexpensive, but if you take a little time to catch yoru breath, you should be able to find better suited designs within your budget that better suit your stated needs.

I respectfully say that there are many good old IOR boats that are happily and successfully cruised (and quickly!) in many parts of the world. Many have lost their 'winch farms' and have been upgraded with much better sail handling gear, clutches, reefing systems, etc.. than their original equipment. Sure, you need a lot of weight on the rail at the top end of a large headsail to keep a boat flat and race fast, but this is by no means exclusive to IOR designs. And yes, racing sail inventories still require several jibs and spins to be competitive unless there are class limits. This again is by no means exclusive to IOR boats. For cruising and race deliveries, shorten sail. Everything will be fine. The C&C rigs are not spindly little things that are runner dependent, so that isn't and issue. These boats will still charge upwind racing or cruising. Downwind? Who is pushing a boat under spinnaker while cruising anywhere near the limits that one would racing? This is where the 'IOR boat stink downwind' doesn't really hold water. Racing? Sure. They can be a handful and require a deft touch on the helm, though many of the Farr IOR designs sail quite well downwind even when pushed. Cruising? Not so much. Of course not all IOR designs are good converts to cruisers, particular many of the custom one offs, but many of the production boats are absolutely fine and provide a lot of bang for the buck to their owners. IOR rule driven hull designs have many iterations. Some excellent, some kooky, but beware of vast generalizations. Baby, bathwater... that sort of thing. OK, end of my small 'r' rant. Of course I have to say, your Farr 11.6 is a very nice boat indeed!

To the OP, I've seen the C&C 39 you're interested in many times before it was on the market. I'm pretty sure it's been nearly a one owner boat, but most certainly needs a good deal of upgrading and love. I'm guessing you could spend 25-35k right off the bat sorting things out as Jeff alludes. (For the amount of money you're going to spend on this boat after purchase, it would be cheaper to make a deal and buy the Express 37 that's listed and you'd have one of the best racer cruisers available even 20+ years after the fact!)

As a design (the C&C is a very early IOR mkI design), it could be great for cruising and is very sea worthy, but will need breeze to be competitive racing even assuming an updated sail inventory. This will be a major expense as it is for any boat that you're intending to race. I'm sure there are better examples on the market if you're patient.

Last edited by puddinlegs; 03-30-2011 at 02:52 AM.
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post #45 of 45 Old 03-30-2011
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Another boat recently listed at the same place, is the Jeanneau Sunshine 38. Not as fast as the Express, but a very capable boat none the less. I own a 30' version of it, same designer etc. The Express would be the best boat if it is affordable at that dealer for an all around boat. The Jeanneau would be the nicest interior. I may know who the current owner of that boat is.....


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