How old is too old II: Design - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 22 Old 04-16-2011
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Gelcoat blistering is common on many boats, rarely going past the layer of mat just inside the gelcoat.

Vinylester wasn't used in the 70's as far as I know. The company with the fire retardant resin additive was Uniflite, who also built the Valiant. The problems started when they had to change the fire retardant additive due to the lack of availability of the one they had used originally. This type of blistering was unique in that it concerned the entire hull structure, not just the mat/gelcoat exterior. I don't think any company except Uniflite used fire retardant additives, and certainly wouldn't have after Uniflite's well known problems. The original reason for its use was the US government contract for 31' gunboats for Vietnam, which required it.

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post #12 of 22 Old 04-16-2011
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Right. Most hulls with a resin/hardener system are polyester; not epoxy. Sorry, I mis-stated that in the last post. I should have written polyester, not vinylester. I had heard of the blister hulls that happened to the Valiant production; but was not sure if it was only limited to their boats or if it was more widespread.

Here is a quote from masepoxies website:
Quote:
To understand the repairing of blisters, we should first understand the cause. Polyester Resin is used in the production of 90% of the boats now afloat and is not waterproof.

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post #13 of 22 Old 04-16-2011
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I think it is very difficult to generalise about design / build construction based on age. There are some very good designs available from every decade, unfortunately there are also crap designs / construction in every decade as well. Even with the same design I would prefer a boat that was laid up continuously (and so the resins in each layer bonded correctly) rather than a yacht that was half finished over a long weekend. However this would be bloody difficult to determine.

When I purchased my current boat all the one's I was looking at were 25-30 years old and some of them were asking 20% less than other boats. One thing I used was my nose, ie most of the cheaper boats had a musty smell about them that warned me that water had intruded into the wrong areas. You could spend thousands of $ fixing these issues, plus it is an indication that the sellers probably let other maintenance issues be forgotten.

JC unfortunately I do not believe there is much you can do to determine whether a boat was well constructed, or poorly constructed 20 / 30 / 40 years ago, apart from researching the reputation of the builder and seeking comments from a knowledgable surveyor. Once you get past 20 years prior maintenance is much more of an issue, ie a well designed / constructed bulkhead will be useless if water intrusion has rotted out the wood.

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post #14 of 22 Old 04-17-2011
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Originally Posted by jcwhite View Post
design, construction techniques and materials instead, how old is too old? I'm sure there have been breakthroughs in hull and rig design - .
I had to drive a 1969 Mustang for a job for 3 weeks (including some 4 wheel drifts in gravel and some fun acceleration stuff!!! ). Every dude in the place was envious and every guy on the street stared. But was the car good to drive? NO!!! A modern Korean cheep pile of junk is FAR better to drive, and far more enjoyable for the passengers!

You are absolutely so correct that there have been breakthroughs. I think in every fascet of boats and their equipment.

If a boat was designed in 1970 or 1980 it will be a poor boat compared to the hated new production boats flying off the line with ultra modern designs, production engineering and the latest electronics, engines, even to the sinks and water mixing taps.

They are now using carbon fibre as chain plates!! The strongest part of the boat now made of 'plastic'!!!


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post #15 of 22 Old 04-17-2011
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I disagree. Yes, construction has advanced, mostly at the top of the market. Epoxy pre-pregs and exotic cores can produce a better boat but not really in the more affordable categories. Hardware like winches have improved a bit but there is nothing wrong with a good self-tailing Barient from 30 years ago. Sinks haven't changed much at all. Most new boats still have stainless chainplates.

A boat well built in the 70's that has been maintained and upgraded as necessary and maybe re-powered has a great deal to offer.
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post #16 of 22 Old 04-17-2011
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Sparkman and Stephens Loki yawl sailboat for sale

You are going to find some old boats that will sail circles around most new boats. They were built to sail though, and not be entertainment platforms. It just depends on what you are looking for in a sailboat........i2f

20 MPH ain't fast unless, you do it in a 1000sq 3/2 house on 10foot waves
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post #17 of 22 Old 04-24-2011
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I'd be hesitant to purchase a vintage boat with a cored hull. Simply too many unknowns and too many risks.


I'd also agree with the post about chainplates and expand the comment into all deck hardware.


A sold FRP hull with a dry balsa deck will last eternity with minimum attention.


A wet cored FRP hull with a soggy balsa deck will be a eternal nightmare.
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post #18 of 22 Old 04-27-2013
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Re: How old is too old II: Design

1977 Islander 32. I like the layout but wonder if its worth getting surveyed. Do people actually cut the asking price 1/2 /
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post #19 of 22 Old 04-27-2013
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Re: How old is too old II: Design

Shaka:
That's my design. They are strong boats and well built. They have a bit more weather helm than I would prefer but they are very stiff and well liked by their owners. Nice looking too.

Not sure about cutting the asking price by %50.
As my secretary once informed me, "Bob, you have retail writen all over you."

Maybe start with a 75.349% offer.

And you can call me any time you like.
First one's free.
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post #20 of 22 Old 04-28-2013
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Re: How old is too old II: Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
there is nothing wrong with a good self-tailing Barient from 30 years ago.
I'll take old S/S Barients over new Harkens or Lewmars any day. I've had lots of them and they are some of the best made and most reliable machinery of any kind that I've ever had. It was a black day when Barient closed up shop.

Modern boats are better in most ways except the "row away" factor but old boats are still perfectly good if they have been maintained. Worst case, you can just sit on the dock and look at them and get a lot of pleasure. Can't do that with most of the new ones IMHO.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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