How old is too old II: Design - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 04-16-2011
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,011
Thanks: 0
Thanked 64 Times in 55 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Gelcoat blistering is common on many boats, rarely going past the layer of mat just inside the gelcoat.

Vinylester wasn't used in the 70's as far as I know. The company with the fire retardant resin additive was Uniflite, who also built the Valiant. The problems started when they had to change the fire retardant additive due to the lack of availability of the one they had used originally. This type of blistering was unique in that it concerned the entire hull structure, not just the mat/gelcoat exterior. I don't think any company except Uniflite used fire retardant additives, and certainly wouldn't have after Uniflite's well known problems. The original reason for its use was the US government contract for 31' gunboats for Vietnam, which required it.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 04-16-2011
KeelHaulin's Avatar
STARBOARD!!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 10
KeelHaulin will become famous soon enough KeelHaulin will become famous soon enough
Right. Most hulls with a resin/hardener system are polyester; not epoxy. Sorry, I mis-stated that in the last post. I should have written polyester, not vinylester. I had heard of the blister hulls that happened to the Valiant production; but was not sure if it was only limited to their boats or if it was more widespread.

Here is a quote from masepoxies website:
Quote:
To understand the repairing of blisters, we should first understand the cause. Polyester Resin is used in the production of 90% of the boats now afloat and is not waterproof.

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 04-16-2011 at 02:42 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 04-16-2011
Ilenart's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Australia
Posts: 507
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 8
Ilenart is on a distinguished road
I think it is very difficult to generalise about design / build construction based on age. There are some very good designs available from every decade, unfortunately there are also crap designs / construction in every decade as well. Even with the same design I would prefer a boat that was laid up continuously (and so the resins in each layer bonded correctly) rather than a yacht that was half finished over a long weekend. However this would be bloody difficult to determine.

When I purchased my current boat all the one's I was looking at were 25-30 years old and some of them were asking 20% less than other boats. One thing I used was my nose, ie most of the cheaper boats had a musty smell about them that warned me that water had intruded into the wrong areas. You could spend thousands of $ fixing these issues, plus it is an indication that the sellers probably let other maintenance issues be forgotten.

JC unfortunately I do not believe there is much you can do to determine whether a boat was well constructed, or poorly constructed 20 / 30 / 40 years ago, apart from researching the reputation of the builder and seeking comments from a knowledgable surveyor. Once you get past 20 years prior maintenance is much more of an issue, ie a well designed / constructed bulkhead will be useless if water intrusion has rotted out the wood.

Ilenart
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 04-17-2011
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,996
Thanks: 25
Thanked 41 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 4
MarkofSeaLife is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwhite View Post
design, construction techniques and materials instead, how old is too old? I'm sure there have been breakthroughs in hull and rig design - .
I had to drive a 1969 Mustang for a job for 3 weeks (including some 4 wheel drifts in gravel and some fun acceleration stuff!!! ). Every dude in the place was envious and every guy on the street stared. But was the car good to drive? NO!!! A modern Korean cheep pile of junk is FAR better to drive, and far more enjoyable for the passengers!

You are absolutely so correct that there have been breakthroughs. I think in every fascet of boats and their equipment.

If a boat was designed in 1970 or 1980 it will be a poor boat compared to the hated new production boats flying off the line with ultra modern designs, production engineering and the latest electronics, engines, even to the sinks and water mixing taps.

They are now using carbon fibre as chain plates!! The strongest part of the boat now made of 'plastic'!!!


Mark
__________________
Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 04-17-2011
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,011
Thanks: 0
Thanked 64 Times in 55 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
I disagree. Yes, construction has advanced, mostly at the top of the market. Epoxy pre-pregs and exotic cores can produce a better boat but not really in the more affordable categories. Hardware like winches have improved a bit but there is nothing wrong with a good self-tailing Barient from 30 years ago. Sinks haven't changed much at all. Most new boats still have stainless chainplates.

A boat well built in the 70's that has been maintained and upgraded as necessary and maybe re-powered has a great deal to offer.
Attached Thumbnails
How old is too old II: Design-1.jpg  
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 04-17-2011
imagine2frolic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,831
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 6
imagine2frolic is on a distinguished road
Sparkman and Stephens Loki yawl sailboat for sale

You are going to find some old boats that will sail circles around most new boats. They were built to sail though, and not be entertainment platforms. It just depends on what you are looking for in a sailboat........i2f
__________________
20 MPH ain't fast unless, you do it in a 1000sq 3/2 house on 10foot waves
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


BORROWED, No single one of us is as smart as all of us!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 04-24-2011
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 649
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
WDS123 is on a distinguished road
I'd be hesitant to purchase a vintage boat with a cored hull. Simply too many unknowns and too many risks.


I'd also agree with the post about chainplates and expand the comment into all deck hardware.


A sold FRP hull with a dry balsa deck will last eternity with minimum attention.


A wet cored FRP hull with a soggy balsa deck will be a eternal nightmare.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 04-27-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
shaka2 is on a distinguished road
Re: How old is too old II: Design

1977 Islander 32. I like the layout but wonder if its worth getting surveyed. Do people actually cut the asking price 1/2 /
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 04-27-2013
grumpy old man
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,550
Thanks: 1
Thanked 72 Times in 68 Posts
Rep Power: 4
bobperry will become famous soon enough
Re: How old is too old II: Design

Shaka:
That's my design. They are strong boats and well built. They have a bit more weather helm than I would prefer but they are very stiff and well liked by their owners. Nice looking too.

Not sure about cutting the asking price by %50.
As my secretary once informed me, "Bob, you have retail writen all over you."

Maybe start with a 75.349% offer.

And you can call me any time you like.
First one's free.
Attached Thumbnails
How old is too old II: Design-islander-32.jpg  
__________________
Please visit my blog. It's fun to read.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Bob's Blog ....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 04-28-2013
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,620
Thanks: 56
Thanked 48 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 4
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: How old is too old II: Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
there is nothing wrong with a good self-tailing Barient from 30 years ago.
I'll take old S/S Barients over new Harkens or Lewmars any day. I've had lots of them and they are some of the best made and most reliable machinery of any kind that I've ever had. It was a black day when Barient closed up shop.

Modern boats are better in most ways except the "row away" factor but old boats are still perfectly good if they have been maintained. Worst case, you can just sit on the dock and look at them and get a lot of pleasure. Can't do that with most of the new ones IMHO.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Jib for a One Design 14 Coolstr85 Racing 0 11-11-2009 05:44 PM
AC / DC Lighting – a stylish design solution for the design obessive DIY… artbyjody Electronics 0 11-03-2009 02:33 PM
Design Gaspilot Cal 1 01-02-2007 10:43 PM
Perry on Design Piper one Design Jeremy Monk General Discussion (sailing related) 0 05-14-2006 07:53 AM
What is the best One design for..? doubleplay Racing 4 04-15-2002 02:32 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:14 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.