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  #11  
Old 04-29-2011
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Well, sounds like you have made up your mind to buy it. Keep us informed of your progress,if you like.
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Old 04-29-2011
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Pics again. Hopefully the links work this time.






Bill USMC
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  #13  
Old 04-29-2011
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Sidney777,

I have quite decided yet, but am leaning towards it. What did you like and dislike about the Centaur 26? Other than being slow. As it was designed to be a cruiser not a racer cruiser I figured it would be a bit slower for comfort. Could speed be improved by changing sail material? As I would need to purchase sails anyway, it would not be a big deal to change the material. How was the ride quality compared to a single/ full keeled boat?

Bill USMC
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Old 04-30-2011
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Usually a boat's speed has more to do with the hull shape and what kind of keel it has. I am don't know anything about this boat but from what I gather anything you do to it will just make it marginally faster. It's going to be slow no matter what you do. Unless this boat is a cult boat that a special appeal to this boat throwing $5000 at it will be a waste of money.

Since it is currently someone's incomplete project it will be hard to sell anyway. If you really want the boat I would wait the guy out for six months to a year and offer him $500. And probably in that years time you will find a Cape Dory or some other slow cruiser that is worth the money (if a slow cruiser is what you really want.) In this market there are a lot of boats out there that are in sailable condition, yet will have all the maintenance you could possible want in your price range.

I think you also asked if you should want a slow boat to learn on. You probably don't. Heavy slow boats are very forgiving so you don't know when you mess up. A more performance orientated boat will let you know a lot quicker that you are doing something wrong.
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MarkCK,

What can I do to make it marginally faster? The boat is about $500. The current owner says I can finish it for less than $3,000 if I buy used sails. So I would have $3,000 or less in my first boat. The boat weighs 3695 pounds and has a ballast weight of 1680 pounds. I am not sure what this means to the sailor. I am more concerned with ride comfort than speed. Wouldn't a twin keeled boat heel less than a single keeled boat?

Bill USMC
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  #16  
Old 04-30-2011
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I don't know a lot about twin keeled boats so I really don't know if it will heel less. Not very many manufacturers build this style of boat so that probably is an indication of how desirable two keels are. 3700 pounds is definitely on the heavy side for a boat that is only 22 foot in length.

A more seaworthy boat will actually heel more than a less seaworthy boat. I am just generalizing here but...Boats with a flatter bottom sail less heeled over than a boat with a more V shaped bottom. But once you are out on the ocean in heavy weather a boat with a flat bottom will pound more so you want more of a V shape to the hull. Most cheaper production boats are made with a flatter bottom for better storage/living space and better initial stability. Once it really starts to blow the boat with the V bottom will heel more initially but will ultimately provide more stability.

Marginally faster is probably going to involve some high end racing sails. You definitely going to need some mylar racing sails, a spinnaker, keep the interior furnishings to a minimum. Maybe some racing guys can chime in with a few tips, but when I said marginally I meant going from 3 knots to 3.1 knots. It's kinda of like buying a knife. If its not sharp the day you buy it, it never will be.
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Here are the sailing characteristics from the original sales brochure: "Warwick points well to windward and with her transom hung, partly balanced rudder, she is light on the helm under sail or motor. She is very responsive with good directional steadiness and, with her knuckled bow is particularly dry. Warwick heaves-to easily and, with a high ballast ratio and form stability, is a good stiff boat." What exactly does it mean? I understand what pointing is, and the transom mounted rudder, and heave-to. It's the rest that I do not understand.

Bill USMC
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Old 04-30-2011
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Light on the helm means that she is easy to steer. Generally all small boats are easy to steer. There is just not enough mass there for it to be cumbersome.

Directional steadiness means that it will go in a straight line without constantly adjusting the tiller. The dual keels should be a big plus in directional steadiness.

I am not sure what a knuckled bow is. I assume it means that it has a fair amount of overhang so that it will cut through the waves instead of pounding into them which would cause for a wetter ride.

High ballast ratio means that there is a lot of wieght in the keel relative to the total wieght of the boat. Usually around .30 is the ballast ratio give or take. If the boat weighs a 1000 pounds around 333 pounds will be made keel wieight. Anything higher than .3 is probably considered high, anything less is considered low. By my calculation 1680/3695 give us a ballast ratio of .45. This would indeed keep the boat from heeling.

Form stability mean how flat the bottom of the boat is. The flatter the bottom the less it heels. With twin keels it probably has to be flat just to have enough room to mount them properly.

Given the previous two indicators high ballast ratio, flat bottom it indeed would be a stiff boat. i.e. when the wind picks up it wont tip over very easily.
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Knuckled bow; Take a look at the hull picture of the boat. About 1 to 2 ft down from the rail (hull to deck joint) you will see about an inch or two sticking out from the rest of the fiberglass, It runs from near the bow back for maybe 8 feet. (kinda like a kuckle on your hand). The idea is like previous post says about spraying water protection. The water comes UP from the sea along the hull and this "knuckle" sticking out is supposed to deflect the spray and make it a dryer boat for you.
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Old 04-30-2011
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I may be of some help as I owned and sailed a Westerly Padgent 23' for 15 years. These are stout, well built, seaworthy boats. These boats were built to Lloyds specs and hulls were certified by Lloyds (they usually certify large ships) to high standards. Equipment tends to be first rate. Laurent Giles designed his basic twin keel yachts in various sizes. Although small, 22' westerly’s have crossed both Atlantic and Pacific oceans with little problem.

The cabin windows look overly large, I suspect someone has enlarged them. I hope you won’t need to haul her too far on that horrible looking trailer. I think $500 is a good price for the basic hull, deck and rigging. The question is are you up for that much work? I lived next to a marina for many years, it was one of the few do-it-yourself yards around. I always joked, the boats stayed ..... owners changed.

What you’ll end up with is a boat that performs fairly well off wind, but won’t point as high as a mono-keel. She’s tender to the point that the lee keel gets horizontal, then she stiffens up and is very hard to heel much further — takes a huge gust. Because you have two “fin” keels she is rather quick to respond to helm and she can turn in a very tight arc.

The cockpit and cabin are very spacious and comfortable, especially for a 22'er. My 28' Morgan has about the same usable interior space as the 23' Padgent and the Westerly’s cockpit was more comfortable. She’s a quality boat. If you must do a project, working with quality is a plus.

DB
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