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  #11  
Old 05-02-2011
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There are all kinds of under 30' boats being built in every price range

And there is the brand new Elan 210 trailer sailer that is really taking off
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If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
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  #12  
Old 05-02-2011
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It's like every other consumer product- we always want bigger, better, more. Look at cars today- everyone wonders where the small economical car went, like the original Honda Civic. Yet, nobody today would buy a car with no air conditioning, no power windows, no power door locks, no bluetooth, rolling on 12 inch wheels and 60 hp...
like the original Honda Civic.

A generation ago campgrounds were filled with tent trailers, and a family with a fifth wheel trailer was a rarity. Today if your ArrrrVeee doesn't fold out, pop up, slide out and transform into a 2500 sq ft raised ranch, nobody wants it.

The growth of financing has played it's part as well- remember back when you could only crank a car loan out to 48 months? Now with 84 month financing, you can buy twice as much car as you can really afford, and it will last almost as long as the payments. Same thing with boats- if you can run the amortization out to 240 months, then the difference in MONTHLY cost (because that is all people look at, is what fits the monthly budget. Yeah, I know, you're saying, you're different. No, you're not.) between a new 27' boat and a new 36' boat is not that big, so might as well buy the bigger boat, right?
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  #13  
Old 05-02-2011
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Originally Posted by bljones View Post
...The growth of financing has played it's part as well- remember back when you could only crank a car loan out to 48 months? Now with 84 month financing, you can buy twice as much car as you can really afford, and it will last almost as long as the payments. Same thing with boats- if you can run the amortization out to 240 months, then the difference in MONTHLY cost (because that is all people look at, is what fits the monthly budget. Yeah, I know, you're saying, you're different. No, you're not)...
Yes I am different. I paid cash for my boats, for my cars (including my original 1977 Honda Civic ), for my children's college, for everything except my house (but I paid 50% down for that). I use credit cards all the time, but I pay them off in full every month, and get a 1%-5% rebate back depending on category of purchase.

Not everybody is the same. It is possible to live without incurring huge debt. You just need to show restraint and save up ahead of time. I admit, it does conflict with the "gotta have it now" mentality of kids today, as promoted by everyone from Oprah to Trump.
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  #14  
Old 05-02-2011
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I wonder what the manufacturing guys would say about the number of new small boats they're selling - Macgregor seems to be churning out the same 4 new 26's a day they have been since forever...

But whatever the manufacturing numbers are, I think that the new boat equation (at least in the cost-sensitive sector of the market) is a victim of its own engineering success. Why would I spend a fortune on a new boat when I can buy a perfectly sound old boat, as upgraded as my budget will allow?
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Old 05-02-2011
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Yes I am different.

... You just need to save up ahead of time.
And the amount you saved was what you had left over after your monthly obligations- taxes, mortgage, utilities. So you saved, monthly, to buy your car. It was still determined by your monthly budget, you just reversed the order- you made the payments, to yourself, before you bought the car, rather than buying the car and making the payments to the bank after.
So you're not different, just more responsible.
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Yes I am different.

... You just need to save up ahead of time.
And the amount you saved was what you had left over after your monthly obligations- taxes, mortgage, utilities. So you saved, monthly, to buy your car. It was still determined by your monthly budget, you just reversed the order- you made the payments, to yourself, before you bought the car, rather than buying the car and making the payments to the bank after.
So you're not different, just more responsible.
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Old 05-02-2011
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Originally Posted by bljones View Post
And the amount you saved was what you had left over after your monthly obligations- taxes, mortgage, utilities. So you saved, monthly, to buy your car. It was still determined by your monthly budget, you just reversed the order- you made the payments, to yourself, before you bought the car, rather than buying the car and making the payments to the bank after.
So you're not different, just more responsible.
Everything you say is true - and I do think in terms of putting my savings into a "virtual capital fund" for replacing the cars at a later date when they wear out.

But what is different is that I do not think of any of my purchases in terms of a "monthly payment." Car dealers are notorious for trying to negotiate car prices based on monthly payments, because there is so much latitude for playing games with the term of the loan to make the car look cheaper. I refuse to engage in that gimmickry - in fact, I won't even do trade-ins because that's another opportunity for them to screw you by complicating the issues.
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Old 05-02-2011
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Per Wikipedia...upper middle class is a household in the USA making $100k or there-abouts.



I dont think $100k is *ENOUGH* income to support a boat note. $100k after taxes translates to about $5,647.00 a month in income after 6% 401k and 10% benefits withdrawls living in some sample state like Illinois

Someone making $100k a year probably lives in a $350k house and probably put between 3 and 20% down on a 30 year mortgage, so assuming 15%. That translates to about $2,000 a month in house note.

So now, income is down to $3600 a month. Assume 2 car payments of around $400 a piece and now you're down to $2800 a month. Food for a family of 4-5 is probably around $700. Utiliities probably $400. Insurance probably $200 a month. Of course gas costs money, probably $400 a month nowadays (1 tank a week, 2 cars). Not to mention, kids cost money...they want to wear clothes and get xbxes and all that stuff....poof, there goes another $600-$700 a month.

So...where's the money for a boat payment?

My point is that owning a boat is no longer the purview of the middle class...even the upper middle class has been priced out of boat ownership (even the smaller boats). A Catalina 250 is around $35k. Jumping up from there, A Catalina 309 is $110k now. *BIG* jump in price there...hence all the used boats.
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Interesting reading, Agree with the economic concepts. Also, when you can aford a boat becomes a matter of economic priorities. Debt control is the key. Use your money don't let it use you. Day sailing is all most of us working guys have time for anyway, maybe a week at the most. NightOwl's data is fascinating. I am better off than I thought. Also consider that 5% of the boomers hold about 50% of the boomer wealth and 50% of the boomers hold 95% of the boomer wealth. Scarry stats when you think about it. Ryan want need to increase the retirement age, it is self inflicted.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
It's like every other consumer product- we always want bigger, better, more. Look at cars today- everyone wonders where the small economical car went, like the original Honda Civic. Yet, nobody today would buy a car with no air conditioning, no power windows, no power door locks, no bluetooth, rolling on 12 inch wheels and 60 hp...
like the original Honda Civic.

A generation ago campgrounds were filled with tent trailers, and a family with a fifth wheel trailer was a rarity. Today if your ArrrrVeee doesn't fold out, pop up, slide out and transform into a 2500 sq ft raised ranch, nobody wants it.
I think this is a good piont. My 30 ft boat was built in the early 70's and was mid to high end for it's time. I consider a night on the boat delux camping. No oven, fridge, forced air heat or hot water. Most cruising boats I see now are set up more like a small homes, and it is very hard to fit all the creature comforts into a 30 ft hull.
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