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goforit 07-07-2003 02:51 PM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
looking for a live aboard to sail from Florida thru Bahamas to Caribbean. I am looking for a 2 cabin interior with roller furling sails with a desiel engine. Are these reliable boats? Any other recommended models? What price range bought in Florida? Recommended brokers? Any other sites which may contain valuable information? Also I''m Canadian so I need information on buying in the USA but registering out of the US? Also information on insurance? Thank you Cy

jbanta 07-07-2003 03:02 PM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
You didn''t say what modle you were asking about other than 2 cabin. There are alot of 2 cabin boats out there. You might want to look an a shallow draft. You also didn''t say what you were willing to pay and if you planned on island hopping or doing some blue water sailing all these things make a huge differance.

Jeff_H 07-07-2003 06:27 PM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
You are asking a whole lot of questions and only providing scant info that would help someone provide a meaningful answer. (It would be helpful if you explained how many people were going with you, what your experience and physical condition is, how much your would like to budget, are you adverse to slow boats or lots of motoring, are you prone to seasickness and so on.)

To deal with the basics, the three manufacturers that you mention each have produced models that might work for what you plan to do and a whole lot of models that would fall pretty low on an experienced offshore sailor''s list of likely candidates for these venues. If you were looking for an ideal boat for the venues that you mention, it would ideally be a boat that offers a wide range of sailing capabilities (light and heavy air plus anything in between), shoal draft, good ventilation, good engineering, and generous tankage. The Carribean, Florida and the Bahamas are tough on a boat . All three expose boats to an environment that really ages a boat quickly(lots of sun, high salt content, and often rough conditions). The Carribean is known for its strong winds, the Bahamas for its short chop and rolly conditions and Florida can offer almost any kind of condition at any time. Boats in these areas are used year round and will often have two or three times the number of hours of a northern boat which is out of use for half of the year.

If these are the three models that somehow made it to your ''short list'', then, with all due respect, you have a lot of research to do and the internet is not necessarily going to give you a clear answer. For one thing, most of your questions do not have one universally right answer. The kind of boat that I would buy for those venues would be very different than the first choice made by other equally experienced sailors. We each bring our fears, goals, experience, and priorities to the table and these shape what our ideal boat will be. No one can really answer this question for you in a way that will actually be meaningful for you, at least without a whole lot more discussion.

What I can say is that in a general way, the majority of the products by the three manufacturers you mentioned were ''value'' oriented boats. As such they offered a lot of boat for the dollar when used as coastal cruisers but generally do not offer the accomodations and engineering that one would associate with an offshore or a even well rounded design.

So while many people have sailed a lot of miles in less than ideal boats, with the kind of agenda that you are suggesting, I suggest that you might at least try to tie down the desirable characteristics of a boat for this kind of sailing and then begin your search. O suspect that your short list will be extremely different than the one proposed.


goforit 07-08-2003 01:32 PM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
Jeff thank you for taking so much time to answering my email. What I really wanted to do was not limit myself to just one boat, yet! My sailing experience is some sailing courses in the Solent, UK then over to France and the Channel Islands, plus 3 1/2 months this last winter sailing on various boats (too expensive for me) from the USVI''s to Martinque. I''m 44 and physically fit, I will be sailing solo with friends old and new sailing with me - thus my wish to have 2 cabins!! I have never been sea sick, not on the North Sea nor crossing the Gulf Stream.
I do not plan to blue water sail only island hop with the crossings from Fl to Bahamas, BVI to St Martin. I think a shallow draft or centre board would make most sence, speed is not the most important thing - having sailed on a Swan 48 and a Bentueau 44 the 44 was overall a better liveaboard, in my mind and though too expensive for me I think comfort important, us women are like that!! I hope to spend no more than $50th.
Having only experience top end boats and not having the budget to have either of those boats I have to be realistic. While in Florida I saw a few boats in my price range and looked on-line and in boats for sale and those 3 boats in the 34 and 37 foot ranged seemed to fit.
I am at this point open to more experienced advice.
I am returning to the UK soon and will continue to sail in the Solent and North SEa while researching my purchase. I plan to return to Florida next Sept to buy ''the'' boat!!
So any advice - pointing me in the right direction for a better advice - would be appreciated.
Thanks ever so much

mcain 07-09-2003 07:41 AM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
I agree with Jeff that your question is still very open-ended. Also that you will get a bunch of opinions from sailors here--each with a different bias.
Personally, I would also second Jeff in that Irwin and Hunter are probably good bay boats, and I''ve sailed on several models of each, but not my favorite for long term cruising. The Endeavor 37 is sometimes mentioned as a cruiser--with relatively shoal draft. Also the older Tartans sometimes got good press, particularly the 34 and 37--centerboards and reasonably well made, 70''s boats.
However, if 50ish is you cost target, the boat itself must be significantly less than that. Systems will probably need to be upgraded for safely, sailing and living: like 406 EPIRB, pumps, wiring, electronics, sails, lines, dingy, spares, bottom paint, anchors: all of which cost quite a bit.
Cruising world did a series of articles in the last couple years on "Vintage Plastic" sailboats with relatively low cost and decent heritage. You might check on those articles. And when you get closer to buying, a surveyor can be your best friend.
And a caveat: everything in this post is just one man''s opinion--the most experience you have with a variety of boats and conditions, the better decision you will make.
But in any event, you have a great idea, and I applaud your desire to go. Go for it!! (Pun intended).

JohnDrake 07-09-2003 08:05 AM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
I too applaud your desire and say go for it. I also think you have gotten some good advice here.

Reading in between the lines, I believe I see that ''livability'' is going to be the issue...along with the desire for two private staterooms and shallow draft. That is going to be a tough nut to crack for 50k...but I think it can be done, given that you do not wish to go for a bluewater cruiser.

In general terms, I think you will find newer models more ''livable'' and in need of less upgrading than older ones. I stuck with boats 1980 and newer as a general guideline and this seems to have worked out for me. All boats need some upgrading. As the poster above observed, wiring, pumps, rigging...all add up. Fast.

I would say (again in general terms) search from 35ft-38ft, 1980 or newer. The sole exception perhaps being a slightly older Tartan 37 (that said, I am not sure this boat will have the cabin you want).

In my searching, I noticed a number of remarkable 38ft designs. Indeed, I got one. It seems that nearly every builder had a really nice 38ft design and the difference in cabin space between 38ft on up to 42 ft was relatively trivial.

As far as comfortable motion is concerned, we will no doubt have a debate here but I am in the heavier is better camp. This assumes a 1980''s vintage design and not a newer more modern, computer designed hull (obviously because of price limitations). Also, after single handing for quite some time in a 22,000 lbs displacement boat (a Wauquiez Hood 38, which I LOVE), I would also suggest using displacement (and LWL) as a guide to what you can handle and what might sail better. I am sure I can handle quite a bit more than a 22,000 lb boat....but I am much happier with 22 as the upper limit. Work is work, no matter what winches are involved. The heavier the boat, the more the work....anchoring, sailing, sail handling, etc. For motion comfort and simple, plain ability to blast through some chop, my lower limit would be perhaps 15,000 lbs (I know there will be quite a bit of debate on this...this is my personal opinion, nothing more)....remember, even a small wave weighs over 10,000 lbs.

As far as island cruisers, livaboard and Endeavours go...the build quality not withstanding...yet another debate...I have heard a few good things about the Endeavour 38 CC. Nice aft stateroom. Can be had for 50k.

A general all around good boat to through into the mix would be the Morgan 382, which can be had for around 50k. It does not have an aft stateroom (it has a qtr berth, but its a fine boat for the money and there are quite a few being used as livaboards.

You could also throw in a Beneteau Frist 38 into this ring.

Others to look for under 38 (although none of these have an aft stateroom):

Rafiki 37
Tayana 37
Union 36 (with bottom job and teak decks done...probably higher than 50k)
Tartan 37
Hunter 37 Cheribini

Sorry this is so long winded. As someone said, a difficult question to bound. Hopefully, this will spark some debate that will be helpful

All the best

s/v Invictus
Hood 38

mcain 07-09-2003 12:21 PM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
More great advice. There is a Morgan 382 a few slips down from my boat. Pretty boat. Morgan made OutIslands, which they are well known for, which were primarily charter boats. But they also made a few very nice cruising boats. The cruising boats were generally well made (in Largo, FL).

goforit 07-23-2003 03:04 PM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
More great information. I realise that my request for information opens the door to debate, this is what I want. I had the luck to sail on expensive boats and am hooked on going it solo but Ive not that kind of budget!! I really wanted to throw out a request to get the most information as possible. The reason for 2 staterooms is so company will want to fun in making up the kitchen table every night. Ive appreciated all information and will begin to look into the different models recommended. thank you all

allyby 09-07-2003 07:30 PM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
If you look at an Endeavour be sure to have the fuel tanks checked and tested for leaks. The bad thing about these boats is the location of their tanks, if they need to be replace due to having to remove a lot of items to get to the tanks you could wind up spending around 15,000.00 per tank. I love the layout of these and they get okay write ups for handling, however that tank item scared me away from them when I was looking.


flroots 11-14-2003 02:02 AM

endeavour, hunter, irwin???
I certainly agree with the comments on the Wauquiez Hood 38. We''ve been sailing our 1986 Hood 38 MKII through the Caribbean for the last 8 years. It''s been the perfect offshore cruising boat for us. Last year we spent hurricane season in Panama and decided to settle there! For that reason, Our Miss Adventure is now for sale. For more information please see:

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