Battle of the Sexes

[Eva]

My husband and I are about to embark on the search for our next boat, and we''ve come to an impasse that perhaps others can help resolve. Understanding that every boat is a compromise, we just can''t seem to find that compromise.

Here are the issues:
We are looking for a boat in the 36-40 foot range (budget about $150K) which is an acceptable compromise between aesthetics/creature comforts and performance. We presently own a Sabre 34, which is the baseline for aesthetics; however, my husband has become increasingly disenchanted with its light air performance (or lack thereof) -- we sail the Chesapeake, so this is no small concern. Also, since the Chesapeake, and perhaps someday the ICW and Bahamas, are our cruising grounds, relatively shallow draft or K/CB (which we currently have) are things to consider.

While I would be perfectly content to move up to a Sabre 38 or Sabre 362, my husband keeps making noise about J Boats (esp. the "cruising" models). I, however, can''t get past the traveler in the cockpit; I know this is key for performance, but is not ideal for the comfort and use of the cockpit (how the heck do you put a table in the cockpit with the traveler there?). My husband will concede that the draft on the J Boats is a little deeper than we''d like.

Despite the desire for performance, we do not plan to race the new boat (hubby has enough outlets for that on Other People''s Boats). We just want to get where we''re going a little faster.

Neither of us is interested in the Big 3 production boats. And we''d like a boat not older than a 1988 model.

What we probably need is a broker/psychologist! In the meantime, any suggestions for a boat that might meet our requirements?

[Jeff_H]

Sailing out of Annapolis, I went through almost the same search (except a third of your budget) when I bought my 38 foot boat last year. The Chesapeake is great at setting up this kind of conflict. With all of its wonderful anchorages it is always nice to have a little more speed so that you have a bigger sampling to cruise to and with its prevelence of light air, a high sail area to displacement ratio means a lot more sailing days and a lot more sailing time in a season.These larger sail area to weight ratios places a real premium on high quality sail handling gear for the ability to easily depower the sails. Unfortunately, that typically means that the traveler will end up in the cockpit. While the Chesapeake rewards boats that have comparatively shoal draft (7 feet or less with less than 6''6 being more ideal), the ability to carry a larger sail plan somewhat encourages deeper draft.

On the other hand the summer conditions places a demand on good ventilation below and a comfortable cockpit above. Unfortuneately many late 1980''s performance boats have comparatively poor ventilation.

As a result there really are comparatively few boats out there that really meet your needs without some compromise. My wife and I very much agree with your husband about the traveler in the cockpit. She was concerned about the high sheet and traveler control line loads that cabin top travellers imply and felt that she wanted a boat that she could trim the mainsheet herself.

Here are a couple suggestions:

Beneteau First 36.7:
I know that you said no big 3 production boats, but these Bruce Farr designed performance cruisers offer a very high build quality, a nice layout down below, good all around performance, excellent deck hardware, and wonderful ventilation. There is a big difference in design and build quality between the ''First'' series and the Oceanis or ''number'' series boats that most people think of when they think of Beneteaus. I suggest that you keep an open mind on this. These are exceptionally good sailing boats and you should be able to buy one new within your budget.

Beneteau First 38s5:
This is an older First series 38. I have a lot of experience with these boats. They sail well and have an extremely nicely detailed interior. Most of these had the traveler on the cabin top. A friend of mine in Savannah is selling a clean one with a genset and air conditioning in the $115K range.

Beneteau First 36s7:
This model replaced the 38s5 and was replaced by the 36.7. They sail well and have an extremely nicely detailed interior. Most of these had the traveler on the cabin top. They are an awful lot of boat for the dollar and make good bay boats as well.

Dehler 38 (Nova):
Although pretty rare in the States these boats offer excellent build quality and very good performance. The are typically pretty shoal draft but lack ventilation.

Dehler 36:
These are pretty rare in the States and are at the outer edge of your price range but would be an excellent choice for your goals.

Express 37:
These are great Chesapeake Bay boats in a lot of ways. They are not as ''yachty'' as the Sabres but are extremely well constructed and offer excellent all around sailing ability. If you can find a ''C'' or ''MkII'' model they had an aft cabin layout, better vetilation and a bit more plush interior.

Hanse 371: These were almost designed to order for your purposes. Classic good looks (although something of a modern interior design), well constructed,Good ventilation, excellent performance and a price new that is within your budget.

J-110:
These are pretty rare boats but offer a lot of modern features in a genuinely dual purpose boat.

J-37C: These are nearly quintessentially ideal bay boats. Good all around performance, good ventilation and comparatively shoal draft bulb keel models.

J-39: These are comparatively rare models that had a second life as a J-120. These are a bit more race oriented than a J-120 but offer a nice combination of racer/ cruiser at a price substantially lower than your budget. The cockpit is something of a compromise and a lot of these were set up with headfoils and not roller furlers.

Tripp 37Holby)
Beautifully built, very nice design, a little deep and a little short on ventilation.


X119 (39 ft): These are very nice performance cruisers that offer a nice combination of accomodations and performance.

X412 (41ft): These are similar to the X119 but are a later model and more cruising oriented. These are beautifully constructed and detailed, nicely finished boats that offer a lot of performance.

[msl]

At the risk of total heresy I would ask if perhaps a motorsailer would work out? Or even a lovely trawler and another, smaller sailboat too ... to keep her company?
Hope things work out.
Mark L.

[Eva]

Thanks for the thought, but motor boats are not within the realm of possibility at this time.

Any thoughts on the newer C&Cs?

[JIO]

Eva: I own a Hanse 371, one of the boats mentioned above by Jeff. I purchased the boat new last fall. I keep the boat in Galesville, on the Chesapeake Bay. I am very pleased with the boat. It moves extremely well in light air condition. The boat has a huge cockpit and the traveller is on the cabin top. Very comfortable down below. The boat comes standard with a self tacking jib, which was great to use in the spring when the winds were consistently blowing with more intensity. The boat can also be sailed with a genoa. I am extremely pleased with the boat and would encourage you to give it consideration. If you have any specific questions, feel free to email me at jopert@krooth.com

Jon

[Silmaril]

One of the boats Jeff mentioned is for sale at the marina I keep my boat at. The Holby Tripp 37 is a truely stunning boat. It has a 6''6" draft, which may push the upper limit for you, but "Starlight" is a spectacular boat in "Bristol" condition. The owners have cared for her with no expenses spared, and are only parting with this gem due to health reasons. I have been aboard her and the fit, finish, and accomodations are second to none.

[dtfm]

So Jeff H., which boat did you and your wife go with. I always enjoy reading your extremely informative posts. I''m curious as to what you sail.

[Jeff_H]

We purchased a 20 year old Farr 11.6 (Farr 38). These were designed as high performance offshore cruisers although they would not meet most people''s idea of an offshore cruiser in that they have a design weight of roughly 10,500 lbs (although based on the travelift measurements and my rough calcs of what I add when cruising her sailing weight is closer to 14,000 with tanks full, and loaded with gear and can goods.)

She pretty much fits my profile of what I was looking for in a boat. Because I single-hand a lot, and because when a couple makes a distance passage the person on watch is really single-handing as well I wanted a boat that would be in the displacement overlap between what is ideal for a single person and a two people (using the traditional rule of thumb of 2 1/2 to 5 long tons per person). Because of the light air on the Chesapeake I wanted a standing sailplan with an SA/D in the 22 range and the L/D in the less than 170 range. I wanted a fractional rig because of its ease in depowering when things get dicey, and because it is easier to single-hand and requires a smaller sail inventory for good performance.

The Farr 11.6 has a very simple but also quite traditional offshore interior layout with good seaberths on both side of the main cabin. I wanted a boat with a good offshore record. My boat was single-handed into Annapolis. I have run across sisterships that have done extensive offshore cruising either single-handed or with just a couple on board.

I was also very impressed with the structural engineering in these boats which consists of a crush block at the bow, closely spaced hand glassed longitudinal stringers and athwartships bulkheads and massive transverse frames.

I wanted a boat that rated less than 90 sec per mile under PHRF which gives us very good range. As a 20 year old design, she is not as fast as many more modern designs. Part of that is her comparatively shoal draft (6''4) and the lack of a bulb on her keel. I do find that she is comparatively easy to keep at speed when short handed as opposed to some of the older designs and that she will sail to her rating short handed better than some more race oriented designs.

This is not a boat that everyone would find ideal but I have been very impressed with her so far.

Respectfully,
Jeff