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Sailboat Cost of Ownership

40K views 65 replies 32 participants last post by  mark2gmtrans 
#1 ·
I am a new member looking at buying a used sailboat. As much fun as it is to imagine the lifestyle, I am trying to realistically assess the annual out of pocket expenses of sailing. I have pasted below a rough model that breaks down the cost into annual expenses and one-time expense (mainly boat purchase and lessons). The bottom line: it costs about $15k to operate a sail 35' to 40' boat in the North East to which one needs to add finance costs. I would appreciate if experienced members would look at my itemization and tell me if I forgot something. I left out depreciation to keep things simple. Sorry about format.

Annual Expenses

Berthing/storage
Winter $2,360
Slip $4,080

Fuel $1,000

Maintenance
Sand & paint the bottom $1,500
Varnish the interior $200
Routine engine $300
Wax the hull $250
Toilet maintenance $200
New running rigging $267 5 year life
Sail wear and tear $1,000
New standing rigging $800 8-10 year life
Unexpected events $1,000 Everything else!
Subtotal maintenance $5,517

Regulatory fees
CT registration $250 Paid annually
Insurance $1,500 Annual

Annual total $14,707

One-time expenses

Purchase Boat $75,000
Surveying $1,200
Tax $4,688

Lessons/training/courses
ASA 101-5 $1800

One time Total $82,698

Finance $7400 (75% of total price over 10 years)

Total cost of ownership $22,111

First year out of pocket $40,869 (Annual cost + 25% down payment)
 
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#30 ·
I think Barry made a lot of sense.

I think you can afford a slip close to home, without the hassle of a mooring, if you just get realistic about your boat size and do much of the maintenance yourself.

When I was boat shopping recently, I was absolutely stunned at the cabin size of the Catalina 30. What that boat lacks in length, it makes up for in girth, and they sail well. You'll find them in a variety of conditions ranging from "derelict" to "bristol" so you can pick your purchase price, and how much maintenance you want to put into it.
 
#31 ·
Regarding mooring and the wife in the dinghy. Just go yourself to the mooring then bring the boat back to the docks to pick her up. 95% of the folks here do this. $25 vs $120 a foot, hell I'd row to kingdom come before I'd fork over 5x just for my wife to come on board once on a weekend or so. Whats that 10-12x a year.

As for winter storage, if you store in the marina on the sound thats like $50 a foot, if you find offsite location it can be around $35 if not cheaper.

Like folks mentioned, if its just you 2 with occational kids. A 28-30 footer would suffice. You really don't gain much going 32-34 until you get to the 40-50fts.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Another aspect to this is your learning. People learn faster, easier, and more enjoyably on smaller boats. Bigger boats take longer to respond to steering changes, which slows the learning process. Smaller boats respond immediately to rudder changes and sheeting-in or loosening the sails. Smaller boats are also closer to the water and give a better feeling of speed as a result. The ideal vessel to learn on is a sailing dinghy or sunfish sailboat. By going to the relative stratosphere of 40 or more feet, you are shortchanging yourself immensely.

So if you have some time to wait for the big boat, get a sunfish sailboat and sail her together with your wife and kids. They'll love it. Do it in-between sailboat shopping.

The budget-buying decision depends a lot on how many people you have. Is it just you and your wife or are there kids? (How many kids?) If it's just the two of you, SHOP WITH YOUR WIFE and look at 25 footers for awhile. Image yourself in one, think about what-goes-where and how to make it work. Then look at some 28 footers or even a 30 footer. IIRC, somewhere right above 25 feet, you'll get a separate head (bathroom) instead of having to use a port-a-potty. Somewhere right above 28 feet you'll be able to shower. After looking at smaller boats, the increase will feel good. (Don't look at big boats with her first.) And you may even like one of the 25 to 28 foot boats.

We keep the budget down by avoiding per-foot charges. Except for winter storage, we've been fairly successful at it. We bought a dinghy so we don't need a slip. We buy fuel so that we can get water. (We've actually gone about a year since buying fuel, but if we need water - and can't get it for free - then we'll buy fuel and I'll ask my son to fill the water tanks at the same time.) Dinghy-wise, the first year we used an ocean kayak that we already owned, and a small 7' sailing dinghy. You can always get a bigger dinghy, and if ithe first one has no engine then you probably don't have to register it, saving even more money. You could get a sailing dinghy to learn sailing, and then use it as your dinghy.

By the way, I know a 25 year old guy that's spending the summer on a 25 foot boat with a small inflatable dinghy with no engine. He works and surfs during the day and sleeps on the boat at night. After buying her for maybe $4k, his yearly costs are probably below $2K. (Just a guess on that, I could be off.) He uses those backyard solar lights at night, and is looking at getting a solar panel for real lights and a radio. When the surf was flat last weekend he went for a sail. Pretty good lifestyle.

The bottom line is that sailing is wonderful. And compared to what you'd be spending on vacations, it's not that expensive.

Hope that helps. Enjoy!

Regards,
Brad
 
#34 ·
The full picture!

My 2 kids are teenagers and my wife is the grand-daughter of a real captain (Le capitaine Grard* Harvey [link is in French]. She has sailed and been around boats since she could walk. I am the real novice though we both need actual sailing lessons.

Married for 20 years, I need to thread carefully: there are minimum standards I need to deal with! I can't see getting away with a single cabin for example. I would not mind but I do intend to stay married!

I have taken in everything that was said in this post and here is what I come up with:

1- Talk the wife into mooring and pick her up at dock as mentioned here. Saving of $2-3k depending on location.
2- In year 1-2, berth between Bridgeport/New Haven to keep driving to a minimum. Consider RI and MA if/when ready to stay for weeks on end.
3- Store in Portland CT. Saving: another thousand at least.
4- Buy a non-unique boat (such as Catalina) to lessen maintenance learning curve. I am thinking about vintage 1985 or so in the $30k range, well maintained with electronic gear already installed and new sails/rigging so I don't have to deal with high expenses in year 1. Why? Because in year 1, I need to absorb CT sales tax, down payment, lessons etc...

With all that taken in, I have total COO at about $13,500 and that includes finance charges. I can't be off more than a few thousand either way and that's something I can afford by simply eliminating vacation expenses but leaving intact my wine and beer budget, something I was not ready to part with.
 
#36 ·
My 2 kids are teenagers and my wife is the grand-daughter of a real captain (Le capitaine Grard* Harvey [link is in French]. She has sailed and been around boats since she could walk. I am the real novice though we both need actual sailing lessons.

Married for 20 years, I need to thread carefully: there are minimum standards I need to deal with! I can't see getting away with a single cabin for example. I would not mind but I do intend to stay married!

I have taken in everything that was said in this post and here is what I come up with:

1- Talk the wife into mooring and pick her up at dock as mentioned here. Saving of $2-3k depending on location.
2- In year 1-2, berth between Bridgeport/New Haven to keep driving to a minimum. Consider RI and MA if/when ready to stay for weeks on end.
3- Store in Portland CT. Saving: another thousand at least.
4- Buy a non-unique boat (such as Catalina) to lessen maintenance learning curve. I am thinking about vintage 1985 or so in the $30k range, well maintained with electronic gear already installed and new sails/rigging so I don't have to deal with high expenses in year 1. Why? Because in year 1, I need to absorb CT sales tax, down payment, lessons etc...

With all that taken in, I have total COO at about $13,500 and that includes finance charges. I can't be off more than a few thousand either way and that's something I can afford by simply eliminating vacation expenses but leaving intact my wine and beer budget, something I was not ready to part with.
you said you intend to stay married then ditch the mooring idea right now. the wife waiting on the dock, for you pick her up is fine on a great weather day. but add a little fog, mist in the morning. a liitle windier conditions then she likes and you will only be sailing on the perfect weather days or by yourself. make her sailing experiance the best you can and yours will be great. the money you save is not worth the hassle and you will meet many more people if you are in a marina. freinds at the marina can be very imporant when that unexpected thing brakes and you need help. also you will gain a lot of knowledge from some of those people which can save you the couple of thousand $ a year. also the best way to keep the teenagers interested is to get them a sailing dingy. they will learn how to sail a lot faster and have fun doing it.
 
#35 ·
Learn to do as much of the maintenance your self. 250 bucks to wax the hull?. A good days work of elbow grease in my book. Also 1800 bucks for a sailing course? How about taking the USCG introductory course "Sailing & Seamanship" for about $100. How about buying a small boat say a 'lazer" and learn yourself? Crewing on other folks boat will give you good sailing experience, a few six packs along the way will make you a welcome crew member. Get a copy of Nigel Calders "Boat Owners Mechanical & Electrical Manual", this covers most things and is my Bible. Since it's getting late in the season, maybe wait until the cold days of Winter to buy a boat at even a better price. Also consider a smaller, less expensive boat for your first purchase. This way you can see if it is really for you, the learning curve will cost you less and the enjoyment level will be higher. Good luck!
 
#37 ·
Get a smaller boat - 25-30 foot keelboat is more than enough to start off with.


You'll leanr how to sail, you will sail more often, and have more fun.
 
#38 ·
Your boat ownership experience will cost what you can comfortably afford. No more, and no less. It's that simple.

You have to decide what you want out of your boat. Do you want to sail a lot and not have to feel that you need to put in extra hours at work to cover your boating jones? Then buy a boat under $10K (There are lots of really, really good ones out there). If you are somebody who likes new and shiny, then prepare to sail less and work more to cover the nut.

The more work you are prepared to do yourself, the lower your maintenance costs will be- the biggest cost in any marine project is labour, and the more of it you do yourself, the less it costs you each time. Case in point:
Our first year, we sanded and bottom painted our boat- we used a gallon of paint and a crapload of cheap sandpaper and lots of fairing epoxy- Material cost: $400 ish.
Year two, better paper better technique, two quarts of paint $120.
Year three, 1.25 quarts of paint. Still $120, because I had to buy 2 quarts.
This year, $10 worth of sandpaper and thinner. Used up the remaining .75 quarts from last year.

I'll still spend the $1500 we allot each year for maintenance and upgrades, but this year it is heavily biased toward upgrades. Do I NEED to make those upgrades? Nope... but I don't play golf or sit in the stands at NASCAR races- my boats are what I do. The gizmos, doo-dads and projects are my greens fees.
 
#39 ·
A few thoughts. I fully reject others trying to set your priorities for you. Only you can decide if the expense is correct in your budget.

We view our boat as our second home and it is. We use it heavily for 6 full months of the year. I don't compare my cost to an older boat on a mooring, I compare them to those of owning a condo down south, which by the way, also turned out to be a very bad investment for all. I also prefer sailing over sitting in a condo with people just waiting to get older.

I scanned the replies and didn't notice this point. You and your wife should go take a bareboat certification course first. I do not agree that all have to start in a dinghy, but do agree that you should get the right habits to start with. It will allow you to know for sure whether this is right for you before you flush the sales tax down the drain, as well as make you competent coastal cruisers on a boat of this size. I will put a plug in for Colgate Offshore Sailing School, which took my wife from zero experience to competent in one week. An intense week, no snorkeling during the day. Highly worth it.

If you are financing the boat, be sure you will qualify for the tax deductibility ofnthe interest. That requires a lien on the boat and the boat must have a permanent head, galley and bunk. It really is just like a second home, whereby, giving you incentive to buy one will absolutely cause you to add money to the economy in all the ways on your budget.

Best of wishes, I suspect you will love it......
 
#40 ·
Couple of comments which I have'nt seen mentioned

I keep track two additional items which I call "additions" and "major maintenance". Additions includes safety gear, decent wet weather gear, upgrading electronics, etc. Some of these items may come with the boat, however a lot will not and can cost thousands.

Major maintenance are things that do not happen evey year but cost a bundle when they do. You already have some of these mentioned with sails & standing rigging replacement. I would add major engine repairs, battery replacements, prop shaft work, etc. On my last boat (45ft) major maintenance and additions represented 30-50% of all other costs, however this was a 25 year old boat which I was upgrading for long trips. A newer boat would probably be cheaper.

Also there is nothing wrong with keeping track of costs, unless your a dreamer and / or have plenty of money to throw away. That said, I recently went from a 45ft yacht to a 34ft yacht which is definitely a lot cheaper to run. Buying the smallest yacht that will comfortably do everything you want does make a lot of sense.

Ilenart
 
#44 ·
At the risk of being flogged for resurrecting an old thread, I'm posting here because this thread has so much great information and I don't want to start the search for those same answers when they have already been answered here.

The OP listed many items that looked to me like he was having the work professionally done. My only experience at owning a boat (Columbia 45) was done vicariously through my father. He wasn't shy about reminding me what everything costs. But that was a lot of years ago.

All maintenance was done by us (me and a friend or two mostly). Materials (and tools, when needed) were the only maintenance expense. And there was the slip and dry dock, no DIY on those costs.

Fuel costs varied on how much traveling we did. We made eight trips from Chicago to Mackinac Island and a couple extended into the North Channel. Time constraints and the desire to make certain destinations could increase fuel costs as the iron genny was the only way we could make it all happen.

I learned a lot about boat maintenance during the 20 years by dad owned the boat. I feel confident I could do pretty much everything I did back then, as long as this aged body lets me. I'm an electrician and a fairly accomplished woodworker. And I have a good mechanical aptitude. But energy is in short supply these days so maybe the big projects I'd farm out. I could do what my dad did and get my kids to do the work. :D That is if I could hook them on sailing like I was.


Anyway, I'm beginning to seriously look for a boat. For now, I won't be selling the house so it doesn't need to be a tricked out liveaboard or proven bluewater cruiser. Yesterday, while window shopping, a 1980 Landfall 38 popped up with those puppy dog eyes.

Other than checking for a possible wet deck core and inspecting the mechanicals, what do I need to look out for to keep those initial costs down?
 
#45 ·
The only way I know to try to limit cost is to really understand the story behind the owners use and reason for selling. Surveys and inspections are important but will only tell you what works and doesn't work right now. The real costs are in what needs repair or replacement over the first few years of ownership.

The lowest cost acquisition will be from an owner that used the boat regularly, cares for it like it was their only child and is being forced to sell for health reasons or relocation or something like it. Virtually anyone is going to defer some maintenance, if they truly want to sell or have been trying for some time. If they aren't using it much, they don't even know what they've deferred.

I walked after a survey once that didn't find anything of great significance and the owner was willing to deal with every discrepancy. In most cases, t would have been a slam dunk. However, the story worried me. Many things on the listing inventory were missing, it was clearly being used to race and I even found one of the missing sails at the bottom of their slip. Under water! I boat was ridden hard and out away wet. It wasn't a question of the current condition, it was a question of whatbinwould find later.

I also purchased a boat that was advertised as an 11 out of 10 and probably was. It still required significant work over the first year or two. I think it was too babied and systems atrophied in a sense.
 
#46 ·
Owning a sailboat has been the most sound financial decision I have made in my entire life. It has allowed me to own my own home debt free since my early 20s , working only rarely, something impossible on land, spend winters in the South Pacific and Mexico many times, for less money than it would have cost me to stay home.
Expenses of owning my boat?
Moorage, zero. I stay anchored
Heating bills, zero. Woodstove eats for free.
Maintenance, less than $100 a year.
Diesel , under $200 a year.
 
#53 ·
I built a spreadsheet with tables for the initial purchase, recurring annual expenses, recurring monthly expenses and ongoing maintenance and upkeep expenses. I estimated about $4K/yr in upkeep of the boat. The boat I used for this figure is a 1984 Sabre 34 that looks reasonably well maintained but has the original engine (633 hours, claimed), new sails, newer rigging and electronics in good to very good condition. We'll be checking it out this weekend. (It's not in the water yet.
)

All expenses, annually, came to ~$14,600. That included a slip ($4,160), winter storage ($1,970), loan payments ($4,370), utilities, parking and upkeep.

While I don't need fancy gadgets, I do tend to like a well maintained boat. It gives me peace of mind.
 
#54 ·
I built a spreadsheet with tables for the initial purchase, recurring annual expenses, recurring monthly expenses and ongoing maintenance and upkeep expenses.......
Way to go to make the initial purchase decision. Be sure it fits in your financial picture.

Then throw it out after you buy the boat! It's just a big buzz kill to watch those numbers fill the spreadsheet over time.
 
#61 ·
Brent, pretty impressive commitment to keeping costs down. While I still spend more the $100 per year on cleaning products and polish and there are no 35mm reusable shaft zincs lying around here, I see you are doing this differently.

However, most can't, both due to lack of desire and availability of opportunity. Chicago doesn't have a tide to beach your boat. :)
 
#65 ·
Have you noticed the increase in armored cars following hearses lately? Neither have I. The greatest fear I have is to die healthy, with money in the bank, and things to do on my "Bucket List".
This is true wisdom!!!

Hey, and the OP is running a business with a young family. Sounds like the plan is to pay others to do the work. That can be a good decision when you run a business because time spent in the business is often worth more per hour than even expensive yard bills. Given this, the OP's estimates of costs are pretty darn good (yea less diesel, but the rest is pretty good).

We just had the perfect beam reach returning from Martha's Vineyard this AM. The boat was screaming, we were smiling, the spray was flying, knot log was pegged... This life provides a limited set of these perfect moments.

Buy the boat and sail on!
 
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