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Old 08-20-2003
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Research Ideas

My wife and I are looking for a boat that will work for both living aboard and blue water cruising. Below is a list of what we are looking for and who will be using/living aboard the boat.

* 2 adults and 1 child
* Want to keep things simple and easy
* Speed is not important
* Stability, sea-worthiness important
* Needs to survive an occassional mistake :P
* Monohull or Multihull okay
* Comfort nice, but luxury not a priority
* Enjoy electronics and gadgets
* 30''-40'' (Small and simple)
* We both carry some extra weight
* 100k Budget

I have been looking at the PDQ 32 and some Hunters (I can see from reading that that might not be good, lol). Any help would be appreciated...in the past we have just day sailed, but we are looking for a life-style change. Stuff isn''t that important to us...I am trying to get my life into two duffle bags as we speak, lol.
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Old 08-21-2003
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Research Ideas

I have been doing a lot more research and have found a few boats that seem to fit what I am trying to do. The ETAP 32S and 34S, the Dufour 34 w/3 cabins, the C & C 110, the Caliber 35LRC and several Catalinas between 30-34 feet (30mkIII, 34mkII, etc). What do you all think of these boats as possibilities as live aboards plus cruising/blue water cruising?

Thank you for your input! I know the best thing one can do is interact with people that already cruise.
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Old 08-22-2003
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Research Ideas

These boats represent such an extreme in build quality and design philosophy that I suggest that you take more time and do more sailing to figure out exactly what you are looking for from a boat. Most of these boats are coastal cruisers at best, a couple are heavily racing oriented, and the Caliber is marketed as a distance cruiser which comes at the price of being a pretty mediocre coastal cruiser. I would suggest that you get a smaller, lighter boat, spend a lot of time sailing it and coming to understand your tastes and skills and that will help you decide what makes sense for your needs and what are the disirable characteristics of a ''blue water'' boat.

Respectfully,
Jeff

Jeff

Jeff
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Old 08-22-2003
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Research Ideas

A whitby 42 is a great candidate for your requirements. They are blue water boats with great liveaboard interiors. Ted brewer design
and priced in your mentioned range.
Best Regards,
Al
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Old 08-22-2003
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Research Ideas

Jeff, Since you seem to be the expert on this message board, why do you consider the Caliber to be a mediocre coastal cruiser?
Paul
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Old 08-22-2003
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Research Ideas

Thank you for the flattering comment but I don''t really consider myself to be "the expert on this message board".

To answer your question, if part of the goal of cruising is to maximize sailing time versus motoring time, then a coastal cruiser generally should be a little more performance optomized. That usually means less weight, more sail area in relationship to the boat''s weight, and more efficient foils.

The reduction in weight does not necessarily hurt seaworthiness or reduce strength but comes as a trickle down reflecting the different needs of a coastal cruiser over a distance cruiser. The coastal cruisers reduction in weight can partially come from the reduced need for water tankage and stores. Because good boats are designed as a system of interelated decisions, when you reduce carrying capacity you also reduce the need for sail area to overcome the drag of the weight of the extra provisions. With the reduction is sail area comes the ability to reduce ballast because less stability is needed by the smaller sail plan, and with that collective reduction in weight a smaller engine can be fitted, and with the reduced weight and drag and smaller engine less fuel tankage is required to achieve the same cruising radius. And with the reduced engine, rig and keel weights the internal structure can be lighter and so on. The impact of these changes can be very dramatic and yet only improve real strength, comfort of motion, performance and ease of handling.

While many sailors dismiss the importance of performance, because a part of coastal cruising can mean beating up comparatively narrow bodies of water (vs deciding which day offshore you plan to tack) good windward performance and top notch sail handling gear does become more important. Because coastal sailing usually implies more changeable winds and seas, the ability to quickly power up and down becomes more important. Cutter rigs have some justification for offshore work but they are cumbersome for inshore work where current thinking says that fractionally rigged sloops are far more practical,easier to handle and less expensive to build and maintain. (I also think that fractionally rigged sloops are far more practical and easier to handle offshore as well but that is another topic).

Good offshore cruisers have comparatively small cockpits and small passageways and compartments. Good coastal cruisers have more generously proportioned cockpits and interior layouts. (Caliber does a pretty fair job of finding a balanced mix on this one although I don''t like their interior layouts for offshore work.)

There is a clear bias in the decisions that Caliber has made toward distance cruising which has legitimacy for their stated purpose but which in my opinion hurts them as coastal cruisers.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Old 08-22-2003
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Research Ideas

Thank you for your response, Jeff. My purchase is still 3-5 years out (waiting for daughter to finish high school). I am planning to charter several boats in the next few years and do some serious research. I am trying to get some ideas on what to charter. I am pretty sure that even for living aboard my wife want to keep things simple so we are looking for 35'' and under. We will both be in our mid-40''s when we make the move so we don''t want a huge boat with lots of maintenance.

~ Steve
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Old 08-22-2003
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Research Ideas

Alpheus, thank you for your idea on the Whitby. I will look into it as a possibility, but I don''t think I am wanting something quite so large. I would rather keep things small and simple. Do you have any suggestions 35'' or less?

~ Steve
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Old 08-22-2003
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Research Ideas

My suggestion is to charter a wide collection of boat types. I would suggest that you start with lighter more modern and responsive coastal cruisers so that you have a base line. Boats like Beneteaus and Hunters are exceptionally common in charter fleets. Then you might try an older quality built boat cruising boat, a higher performance cruiser like a J-37, a heavier live aboard type boat like an Island Packet, and perhaps a catamarran. Each will give you a different type of experience. Some aspects of each may appeal to you and some aspects of each may completely turn you off. It can be difficult to separate the problems with one boat from something endemic to a particular type of boat or manufacturer but as you sail on more and different types of boats you will develop a sense of your own taste in boats.

By the way, I agree with you about not buying too big a boat. I do want to point out that the length of the boat is a pretty poor metric to use to determine the ''size'' of a boat. In a perhaps more accurate sense, displacement tells you a lot more about how big a boat really is. Displacement tells you a lot more about the size of the sails, the amount of accomodations, costs of maintenance, and ease of handling than length. Within reason, a longer boat of equal displacement will be easier to handle, more seaworthy, offer a little more accomodations, a more comfortable motion and offer better performance on all points of sail.

Good luck in your journey,
Jeff
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Old 08-23-2003
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Research Ideas

Then take a look at a Westsail 32. It lots of
room for storage,is very seaworthy,and will get you anywhere you desire. Try www.westsail.com for more information.
Best Regards
Al
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