Build Quality: Ericson, Pearson, Sabre, Tartan - Page 6 - SailNet Community
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post #51 of 116 Old 08-29-2011 Thread Starter
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Nice Boat!!!

She's a beauty Sabreman! If I'm not mistaken, that list of upgrades/improvements looks like a yachtworld spec sheet. You're not putting her on the market after all that are you Would be in my price range any way.

Marty, I did not mean to imply that your costs were out of line. It is good to hear what others have gone through in getting their boats in shape. My goal is buy a boat that is first and foremost well-built and structurally sound and followed a close second by an engine in decent condition. Hopefully the absolutely necessary systems will be in good working order. Bells and whistles can wait and spreading 10-30% out over several years is fine with me. I don't particularly want to dump 30% on top of the cost of the boat the day she is delivered to my marina.

GRR
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post #52 of 116 Old 08-29-2011 Thread Starter
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Oops

That of course would be that Victoria is NOT in my price range...stating the obvious.
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post #53 of 116 Old 08-29-2011 Thread Starter
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A smorgasboard of old boats

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Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
I'd say Pearson and Ericson make very nice boats that will suit your purposes well. Just find the right example and you should be fine. I've had friends cruise the Great Lakes on everything from a Catalina 27 to a C&C 61. Another friend was the first to windsurf across Lake Michigan in 1980!

Within the whole 'manufacture' discussion are outstanding individual designs. And of course budget not only to buy, but to maintain. Don't underestimate this. Costs rise exponentially roughly every 5 feet.

Of the Ericson boats that deserve special attention are those that were originally built by Olson ( Pacific Boat Works... outstanding glass work!) and the molds sold to Ericson after PBW went out of business: the Olson 34 and Olson 911. The Pacific Boat Works 911(s) is lighter and superior in build to the Ericson 911(se), but are great 30' boats from the board of the late Carl Schumaker. The Olson 34 is a great boat as well. Both the 911 and 34 are hard to come by as their owners are loath to part with them.

Others off the top of my head that haven't appeared in this thread:
Yankee 30, Olson 911, S2 9.1 or 10.3, J-34 or 35c (the nod goes to the 35c), Alsberg Bros Express 34. (Both the Express 34 and J35c where built in very limited numbers and both are very popular with their owners so hard to find.)
Then there are a number of C&C's (pre-Tartan and post Tartan ownership) that are popular, widely available, and have great user group info available. If you had the cash, an older S&S small Swan (36,37, or 38) would be nice, as might a Hinckley Pilot 35 ( a very different and older design than any of the aforementioned) CS made some very nice boats as well that are worth looking at. In the end, the right boat will not only be mechanically and structurally sound, but you'll just like looking at it in the slip! If you don't like the one you're dancing with, you'll always be looking for something else and focus is important. It's not just a boat, it's a life style!

You can find more basic info on the boats mentioned here:

Sailboatdata.com is the worlds largest sailboat and sailing yacht database with more than 8000 sailboats, sailing yachts, and sailing dingies listed.
Thanks Puddinlegs...a whole slew of boats to consider and many that I have not looked into yet. But I'm not sure I can sail a boat with "911" in the name. Put 5-7 tons of sailboat underneath me and with three brand new ASA certifications I know just enough to be dangerous (In seriousness, I'll be heading out to help crew for races at a local yacht club and plan to charter with a captain to get some more water time while the boat search continues...how else to become experienced but to do it.)

Various people have commented on this thread about 10-30% for upgrading and repairing the old boat, but as a new sailor it is hard to get a sense of the maintenance costs and in particular the exponential increase for every 5 feet of boat length. Bigger boat equals more expensive slip fee, more bottom paint, bigger/more expensive sails, more fuel...what else?
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post #54 of 116 Old 08-29-2011
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We dumped 20-25% the day we delivered with bottom paint, wife wanted the hull waxed, new boot stripes.......Then again, boat was 20K, work with someone else doing and haulout for survey etc went with it.......It can happen depending upon the price etc. !5% of what sabreman has done, would be 60-70% of my boats cost, I have done a lot of what he has done, and more. Altho a lot due to different circumstances has been done by shop labor, so price is higher than his. If he had uses yar/shop labor, his price/percentage would probably be double to triple!

I could have done some of the sails for less, ie go newish as he did on the 140. Mainsail I could have gotten a really cheap dacron for 1200, or the Fiberpath for about 3500...... A GOOD dacron would have been 1500-1800. His sails are probably double or close to mine, as his boat is bigger, so sails will be bigger, and more cost! I know one guy with a 40' boat, his main was 5K for a decent dacron!

Some stuff as said, will be X$ no matter what size, cost......

Sailing magazine every january?!?! does a refit of about 4 boats, costs vary from 10% for a fairly newish boat, to 150% for a racing dingy. The % can vary based on what you need to do, vs want to do vs_____________.

Another boat to add, Islander, maybe Ranger too.

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post #55 of 116 Old 08-29-2011
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Hi GRR,
I just got back from sailing through a good portion of the great lakes. 6 weeks on our little Contessa; My wife, dog and I covered only about 900 miles and spent lots of time exploring Lake Huron/Georgian Bay, Lake St. Clair, Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. We took everything the lakes could bring to us... 30+ knot winds one day, 26+ knots with 14' mixed waves another, fog, sun, calm.

While we were out there, we came across a wide range of other sailors with everything from a Westsail 32 to 50+' sailboats to smaller C&C's etc.

What I'm trying to say is that if we can make the trek in a lil' 26' sailboat, any "size" will be sufficient. And given the wide range of craft that successfully navigate the Great Lakes any of the brands you mention make sufficient boats for the task.

So... the question really shouldn't come down to "which brand", but you should look at what sailing characteristics you prefer. Fin keel/Full keep? Rig? Transom style? Wide or narrow beam? Displacement? etc. etc. I'm, by no means, an expert on those but there are some terrific books that describe the characteristics of each. Once you determine what style of boat you want, THEN you can easily narrow down which makes/models fit the bill.

Well, at least that's my approach.
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post #56 of 116 Old 08-29-2011 Thread Starter
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Boat Characteristics versus "Brand"

Jordan H,

Wow! What a great way to spend a part of your summer. Sounds like an adenturous trip at some points.

I think your approach has merit and boat characteristics are one of the considerations. One of the characteristics I'm considering is boat draft. I started a thread on this issue in the cruiser forum. If you have a few minutes, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this issue over on that thread as well as more about your trip through the Great Lakes!

Thanks,

GRR
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post #57 of 116 Old 08-30-2011
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Shortlist for our boat over the past three years:

Re-powered.
Re-core deck around chainplates, bow pulpit, head mushroom vent, and port primary winch.
Backing plates for mast base turning blocks (6 total).
Replace cockpit multi-display (partial warrantee)
Replace mast head unit computer board.
New house and start battery
Replace GPS (this was a freebee... some things just work out. Clean living I guess!)
Rebuild head (mostly labor, a few small parts)
Replace forepeak hatch (bent frame)
Replace interior lighting (switch to LED)
Replace running light bulbs (again, LED)
New Life Sling (recalled and replaced by West Marine)
New dock lines
A couple of new fenders (ironically, we've had three wash up next to the boat over the past three years... put out an apb, but no takers)
replaced life jackets
new #3 kevlar tri-radial
replaced line clutches

replaced running rigging:
spinnaker sheets
jib sheets
jib halyard
main halyard
traveller line
topping lift
pole downhaul
pole mast control line
vang fine tune line
jib car adjustment lines
reef line(s)

re-cut old dacron delivery/cruising main
installed smart plug
replaced interior handrail
re-varnished our very small amount of brightwork
touch up paint to scratches on mast
disassembled, inspected spreader assemblies.
disassemble, lube and service winches (6.. twice a year)
Annual haulout, inspection, bottom paint, buff + wax hull.
The usual engine maintenance/oil changes.

To do's:
sort out the NMEA wiring between GPS,VHF, and the auto tiller.
replace headstay foil
re-rig spinnaker poles
buff + wax doghouse, cockpit (no, not the floor!)
Probably not this year, but we'd like a new #2.
Finish new lee cloths
Re-bed deck hardware aft of the doghouse
re-sew mainsail cover

Pretty typical list I'd guess. The boat has great bones and is well worth the effort. Not as long a list as Marty's though! ... fortunately the boat came with a great sail inventory! And yes, we do sail a good bit so it doesn't really feel like a constant project.

Last edited by puddinlegs; 08-30-2011 at 12:53 AM.
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post #58 of 116 Old 08-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post

Another boat to add, Islander, maybe Ranger too.

marty
Ranger 33, Islander 36... Good thoughts Marty! There's an absolutely stunning old Ranger 37 One tonner around here. Probably looks better than new.
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post #59 of 116 Old 08-30-2011
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I'm late on this thread but will toss my $.02 in.

I would seriously take a look at the Catalina 36 and see if there are any on the Lakes there for sail in good condition. It was one of the most successful production boats ever made for good reason. The Catalina 36 association is hugely active and very helpful. With so many boats out in circulation, there are hundreds of owners willing to lend you their help and experience. Catalina Yachts is also very helpful to owners of it's boats, regardless of how old.

Having said that, on the older C36 you want to make sure that there has not been water intrusion into the deck. If the chainplates were not adequately maintained, it is possible for water intrusion and then core rot in the deck. There is also the possibility of some blistering on the hull (not bad, but it can be there).

I owned a '84 C36. Comfortable and a very nice sailing boat.

FWIW, when I was a kid I was very covetous of some friends we cruised with who had an Ericson27. Very nice and well built boat. I've always considered the Ericson to have a great reputation. However, boats of that vintage will have potential issues as others have said.

BTW, now is the perfect time to buy a boat.

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post #60 of 116 Old 08-30-2011
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There is a LONG owner owned I36 here where I am, been for sail for awhile too. Not sure what the inside is like. Probably too expensive to ship to the GL's.

Rangers are good boats too. Part of the BPunta fiasco in the late 80s as to why they shut down. islander may have been the recession from the fed boat taxes...... Their are a number of I36's that are still be raced and do well locally too. Whistling Swan comes to mind as just rated faster than me, harder than heck to catch on handicap...

Marty

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I drives me dinghy!
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