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  #61  
Old 08-30-2011
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Short list?

Puddinlegs,

If that is the short list, I'd hate to see the long list. That is daunting! I may need to take up bowling or win the lottery to maintain a sailboat.

dhays,

You are adding to the growing list of posters suggesting the boat be purchased from the Great Lakes. Unfortunately, at this point, the boats I'm really drawn to are not really in the Great Lakes in my price range. Hopefully, that will change, but if the choice comes down to a boat that has been in saltwater versus a Great Lakes boat that doesn't make my heart race, I think I gotta go with the saltwater.

GRR
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  #62  
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Tartan 33?

What do folks think of the Tartan 33? It received a pretty good review in Practical Sailor, but I'm wondering about firsthand knowledge.
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Here's some more info on the Tartan Owner's list that may help you:

Tartan 33

Be careful though, there were a few versions. If you get the Sheel Keel, you'll be set for gunkholing. If you get the T-33R, that's the deeper draft fin keel version. Great for racing, not so much for shallow water cruising.
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Last edited by BubbleheadMd; 08-30-2011 at 07:41 AM.
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  #64  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
Here's some more info on the Tartan Owner's list that may help you:

Tartan 33

Be careful though, there were a few versions. If you get the Sheel Keel, you'll be set for gunkholing. If you get the T-33R, that's the deeper draft fin keel version. Great for racing, not so much for shallow water cruising.
Right. Starting to get some input from Great Lakes sailors that shallow draft is not really important even for cruising the islands and channels. Some have said anywhere between 5-6 ft of draft is fine for this purpose.

The T-33 seems to a have a bit of a quirky interior.

Thanks for the link.

GRR
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When I was shopping for a boat in the 32-35 foot range a couple of years ago, my short list included many of the boats mentioned and a few that were not - Sabre 34-2, Pearson 34, J34c, Tartan 34-2, C&C 99, Catalina 320, Catalina 34, Tartan 3500, Cal 33-2. Ended up with a very clean Cal 33-2 at a great price. In the last two years of ownership, I've "only" spent $3000 or so on replacements and upgrades, though new sails are on the list in the next couple of years. Love the boat and would do it all over again.

I find the rule-of-thumb for upgrading costs based on some percentage of the cost of the boat make no sense. An older project boat is going to cost several times its purchase cost to make decent. A newer well maintained boat of the same size that costs many times the project boat may only need normal maintainance. You really have to take it boat by boat and add up what needs to be done to make it like you want it.
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GRR,

For what it's worth, Without listing everything.... It looks like Sabremans and puddlinglegs lists and timeline are very similar to mine,
in six years of ownership of my current Sabre 34. I have easily put 40% of the
cost back into upgrades and repairs.

New sails, running rigging, new cushions in the cabin, GPS Plotter, Dinghy and Motor, Dodger and Bimini, Bulkhead work, replaced heat exchanger, tri-color, deck light, anchor. etc etc.
Not to mention all the routine stuff like batteries, hoses, refinishing the cabin sole, taking apart all the winches, seacocks to clean and lube..and so forth...
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  #67  
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On reasonable and expected maintenance costs

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Originally Posted by JimsCAL View Post
I find the rule-of-thumb for upgrading costs based on some percentage of the cost of the boat make no sense. An older project boat is going to cost several times its purchase cost to make decent. A newer well maintained boat of the same size that costs many times the project boat may only need normal maintainance. You really have to take it boat by boat and add up what needs to be done to make it like you want it.

Jim,

Congrats on finding boat you are really happy with. I think I'm really looking for the well-maintained boat that needs only normal maintenance. Maybe a tall order. Certainly not a project boat. I would expect to have to do the usual maintenance. Of course, no one can predict surprises except maybe to say they will occur. As to frequency or severity of the issue...it seems a bit of a gamble.

It is good to hear a somewhat different perspective on boat maintenance/repair costs.

GRR
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GRR,

For what it's worth, Without listing everything.... It looks like Sabremans and puddlinglegs lists and timeline are very similar to mine,
in six years of ownership of my current Sabre 34. I have easily put 40% of the
cost back into upgrades and repairs.

New sails, running rigging, new cushions in the cabin, GPS Plotter, Dinghy and Motor, Dodger and Bimini, Bulkhead work, replaced heat exchanger, tri-color, deck light, anchor. etc etc.
Not to mention all the routine stuff like batteries, hoses, refinishing the cabin sole, taking apart all the winches, seacocks to clean and lube..and so forth...
Tempest,

To a new sailor, it is worth a lot. As were the lists by Sabreman and Puddinlegs...just a bit overwhelming. Perhaps I'll have to downgrade my sights from a small cruiser to a dinghy.

GRR
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Hope our list didn't scare you away! Honestly, many of the jobs just aren't that big a deal, especially if you like boat work. The biggies, re-powering and re-coring, where from the results of the pre purchase survey. We made our initial offer, did the survey, found some issues, got estimates, subtracted those costs from the original offer, adjusted the offer, accepted, got the boat, and fixed the problems. It took about 2, 2 1/2 weeks of work for the deck. The engine was about 3 days. Both the engine and deck where professionally done. The rest is just my own sweat equity which saves a ton of money. Lots of stuff is just changing things out. Splicing new lines is kind of a zen exercise. It's actually relaxing. Yeah, our list was a little surprising to me as well. It just doesn't feel like it's been all that much work. Even with the money spent, we're still miles below what a new 34' boat would cost, and with arguably, a much better design and build quality than 95% of what's currently available new.

Last edited by puddinlegs; 08-30-2011 at 01:11 PM.
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Newbie double whammy

Quote:
Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
Hope our list didn't scare you away! Honestly, many of the jobs just aren't that big a deal, especially if you like boat work. The biggies, re-powering and re-coring, where from the results of the pre purchase survey. We made our initial offer, did the survey, found some issues, got estimates, subtracted those costs from the original offer, adjusted the offer, accepted, got the boat, and fixed the problems. It took about 2, 2 1/2 weeks of work for the deck. The engine was about 3 days. Both the engine and deck where professionally done. The rest is just my own sweat equity which saves a ton of money. Lots of stuff is just changing things out. Splicing new lines is kind of a zen exercise. It's actually relaxing. Yeah, our list was a little surprising to me as well. It just doesn't feel like it's been all that much work. Even with the money spent, we're still miles below what a new 34' boat would cost, and with arguably, a much better design and build quality than 95% of what's currently available new.
For me, the issue is that not only am I new to sailing, but I am also new to sailboats. I did not grow up around or have exposure to people who owned them, so initially I had no concept of what was required for maintenance, etc. How could I with no exposure? My girlfriend's brother has been sailing for a long time and we have been talking the last few months and I'm learning a lot. But it is a steep learning curve when you've had no prior exposure and some of the information on costs is surprising/sobering and takes a little bit of the enthusiasm off (just a little). But that is okay...it is part of the deal and I'd rather know ahead of time what I'm getting myself into before dropping a big chunk of change on a boat.

So no, you did not scare me away. I'm still pretty stoked about getting a boat. And I appreciate sailors giving their input...that is how I broad my exposure to people who have been there.
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