Which boat to choose - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-26-2003
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 25
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
sammazza is on a distinguished road
Which boat to choose

Any advice / opinions on these for a ocean passage trip around the world:

Norseman 447,
Swan 47 C/B,
Wauquiez Centurion 47,
Cardinal 46

Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 08-26-2003
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New England USA
Posts: 261
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 12
Silmaril is on a distinguished road
Which boat to choose

Not sure on the others, but I would have to caution those sailing the Swan 47. It has a real propensity to broach, in even seemingly harmless wind and sea conditions. The one I sailed extensivly on eventually had a 25% larger rudder installed in an attempt to correct this. It helped, but was kind of a band-aid approach to the boats design flaw.

This S&S design was in the mid 70''s, 1975 I think. It was their attempt to maximize on the IOR rules. Lovely lines, but it was rule driven. And the C/B version was more tender still! I would say you would be better off with the older Swan 48, which is actually a little shorter than the 47! It was more of a derivative design, drawing on the more sea-kindly CCA rules. The 47 was a direct IOR design. As the owner of one of the mid-70''s pure IOR designed boats, I can attest that they can be a real handfull!

Don''t get me wrong, I love Swans, they are some of the best built boats in the world. But stick with the S&S ones designed prior to 73'' and then the later Frers designs. The mid 70''s S&S designs were scary!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 08-28-2003
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 25
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
sammazza is on a distinguished road
Which boat to choose


Thanks. The Swan was dropped from consideration for that and other reasons. THe winches are allover the deck. I''s designed more for a full crew. No good way to install a dodger that would protect the cockpit. And they''re expensive. I really like those boat,e specially the dual companionway. But, .. may be next boat.

The Cardinal was dropped by my broker. Balsa-core... need I say more.

So I am left with the Centurion 47 and the Norseman 447. The Centurion also has a dodger problem because the companion way is forward from the cockpit area and the main sheet are just aft of the companionway.


Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 08-28-2003
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,680
Thanks: 5
Thanked 105 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
Which boat to choose

Perhaps you do need to say more. With fatique being a more prevalent problem in older non-cored fiberglass hulls than hull delamination of balsa core in fiberglass cored hulls, please explain more about why your broker suggested that the Cardinal be dropped. Balsa cored hulls are generally not a problem. Balsa cored hulls gets a bit of a bum rap because of problems that can occur in balsa cored decks. In a recent Naval Academy study of impact resistance, the cored hulls did much better than uncored hulls.

Respectfully,
Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 08-30-2003
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 25
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
sammazza is on a distinguished road
Which boat to choose


The Cardinal deck is balsa-cored. I beleive my broker discounted that boat because he felt that this was not as strong as the the alternative.

Since he is so much more experienced than me, I have to trust his opinion (at least to a greater degree than if I knew more.)

In any case the cardinal has a few + and misu in the layout. And I was not too sorry to see it removed from the list. The major minus was the fact that it had the nav=station in the owner''s cabin. And that was the companionway accessible from the cockpit.

A plus was that it did have 2 companionways.

I am still stuck and can not decide between the Norsman 447 and Centurion 47. The centurion is so much beamier and confortable inside. But there may be a dodger issue since the companionway is forward of the cockpit. It has real big comfy heads with pullman owner cabin.

Any comments that could sway me one way or another?

Thanks.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 08-31-2003
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rocil is on a distinguished road
Which boat to choose

Hi, everybody!

We are a family of four; mom, dad and two little kids (6 & 2 yrs). We are planning to liveaboard as soon as we find our boat... Right now we are located in the caribbean. Which boat would be nice, fast, roomy, comfortable to liveaboard with little kids and good to go everywhere in the world?? We have a budget about $80,000.00 to buy a used one around 40 ft. or bigger. Thanks, Rocil.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 09-02-2003
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 309
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
JohnDrake is on a distinguished road
Which boat to choose

I have a Wauquiez Hood 38 and would say go with the Centurion 47. I am very pleased with the design, build and quality of the finish of my Wauquiez, as well as the components used. She is a wonderful performance sailing machine and wonderfully comfortable down below. Perfectly dry inside, no leaks at all (17 yrs old).

Our users group has made note of good support on this older, now out of production model from Wauquiez.

As for solid glass vs balsa cored boats, I take a somewhat different view than others. My personal, and unprofessional, opinion is that given two boats 15-20 yrs old, I would favor the solid glass one. My reasoning would be that not knowing how a boat was treated for the previous 15-20 yrs makes an older balsa cored hull a riskier investment. True, the USNA study done demonstrated that a balsa cored hull can take a greater impact....but I am not planning on running this boat up on the rocks anytime soon. I am much much more concerned with the issue not addressed by their research: what happens to a balsa cored hull over 15-20 yrs of slight impacts against pilings or some other abuse. Over time, a balsa cored hull can suffer delamination in a minor impact area (and again, I am talking about a time period of 15-20 yrs...as those are the boats many people are buying now). Often, this damage can be overlooked or missed at survey. Repairing this is a significant cost. There really is no such similar issue with solid glass boats. Just go through any boat yard and look at 60''s & 70''s era boats to see how they do hold up.

At any rate, just my personal take on it.

If you get the Centurion and are not happy with it....I will trade you ;o)

Hope this helps

John
s/v Invictus
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 09-02-2003
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,497
Thanks: 7
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Which boat to choose

For whatever it''s worth, most any deck on any fiberglas boat is cored, and almost 100% with balsa wood. Some real early models had plywood core, some builders mix plywood in high-stress areas with balsa, but if you buy a fiberglas boat, you can be almost certain you will have balsa-cored deck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 09-02-2003
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,497
Thanks: 7
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Which boat to choose

Jeff,
Aside from the theory about flexing solid fg panels, what is the reality of this fatigue problem you reference with all glass hulls? I''ve seen any number of major repairs being done to cored hulls due to water intrusion, but I''ve never seen or heard of a solid hull being repaired for fatigue...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 09-02-2003
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New England USA
Posts: 261
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 12
Silmaril is on a distinguished road
Which boat to choose

I have a mid-70''s limited production solid glass hulled boat. The most visible thing you can see is, if you sight down the topsides, you will see an outline of every single bulkhead or stringer, represented as a "wave" in the topsides. This is due to the fact that the solid glass flexes, but not at the area tabbed to the bulkhead or stringer. If the bulkhead or stringer was tabbed directly to the hull, you will develop stress in the glass, and over time possible delam issues. In an attempt to mitigate this, manufacturers would place a hard "sponge" of some sort of foam between the edge of the structural member and the glass of the hull. I can attest that while it may help in the areas of reducing stress fatigue, you will still see the outline of the structural member on the outside of the hull. The greater stiffness of the cored hulls eliminates this "waffle-ing".

As in anything, when looking at an older boat, a real determining factor in the health of the hull is how it has been cared for. Did the previous owner(s) take proper action to prevent osmosis, were through hulls regularly re-bedded, was the boat left with standing water in the bilge? Were any hull repairs completed in a proper, structural manner, or just cosmetically "touched-up"?

With no currently reliable method for checking core moisture, "Caveat Emptor" is the guiding principal. Do your due diligence, and if anything seems "off" steer clear and look for another vessel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re-naming the boat pirateofcapeann General Discussion (sailing related) 130 01-07-2014 12:14 PM
New name (I know, I know) owlmtn Boat Review and Purchase Forum 13 12-13-2009 08:46 PM
help with lifes dream kimby Boat Review and Purchase Forum 37 12-03-2009 12:32 AM
What can you tell from the numbers? brazilnut Boat Review and Purchase Forum 10 07-01-2009 05:09 PM
buying first boat jerrycooper14 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 21 04-23-2002 03:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:34 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.