Offshore?

[Jeffamc]

How do I tell a sailboat that was designed for offshore cruising vs. a sailboat that was designed for coastal cruising. For just 3 people sailing offshore, what would be a few offshore sailboats?
(sorry, im stupid)

[Jeff_H]

This is a topic that could fill a book. In fact it has called "Desireable Characteristics for Offshore Yachts". While the book is somewhat dated, there is a wealth of good information contained within it.

If I had to summarize my viewpoint on this, -adequate displacement to carry food and supplies for a long period offshore (roughly 2 1/2 to 5 or 6 long tons per person),
-low VCG and moderate to low form stability,
-A limit of positive stability (LPS) in excess of 130 degrees fully loaded for voyaging,
-Long waterline length for comfort, seaworthiness and speed,
-high ballast to weight ratio carried in a deep keel,
-easily manageable rig (in my order of preference fractionally rigged sloop, cutter, ketch),
-carefully engineered structural system (meaning lots of closely spaced framing or glassed in bulkheads and flats, good sized transverse floor frames, squash block at the stem, and reinforced forward 1/3),
-Easy to reef reefing system that does not count on a roller furler or sending someone on deck, easy to set storm sails.
-Water tight compartments near the bow and in compartments containing through hulls,
-reasonably balanced helm,
-small cockpit with big drains,
-preferably a deck stepped mast with a moment connection at the deck or failing that a keel stepped mast,
-small portlights and dorades that can be easily sealed,
-almost continuous hand holds through the interior or on deck, sturdy lifelines, sturdy jackline and other harness attachment points,
-A minimum of thru hulls,
-a plethora of storage ideally compartmentalized to permit access without having to unpack lots of unneccessary items,
-multiple manual and mechanical bilge pumps,
-positive latches and hold downs on all lockers and other heavy items within the interior,
-minimal extraneous deck openings(such as sail lockers or lazarettes open to the interior),
-Capable of being handled single-hand by the smallest member of the crew (or in a crew of 6 or more by the two smallest members of the crew.)
-Seaberths for at least 1/2 of the crew ideally with these berths on the windward side of the boat (which would mean seaberths for the whole crew in a blow),
-40 to 50 gallons of water tankage per person and 300 to 500 miles of fuel tankage,
-narrow interior passages with adequate foot holds to permit safe movement,
-a place where navigation can be safely and easily performed,
-adequate ground tackle and ground tackle handing gear.

These next items are probably a little controversial:
-Fine, vee shaped entry to minimize impact with waves and improve upwind performance,
-easily driven hull,
-L/D under 200 and over 150 for reasonable performance in a wide range of conditions,
-Enough sail area to sail through lower wind areas (L/D in excess of 20 using the standard calculations meaning 100% foretriangle and not counting roach).

I am sure that there is much more that I have skipped but I need to get to work.

Jeff

[paulk]

Dashew''s "Circumnavigator''s Handbook" is another good source of information and ideas that seem to have worked. Again, it''s dated, but old boats that are set up & maintained properly still float, and new ones that aren''t still sink.

[mdougan]

Another great reference is the book "Chosing a Cruising Sailboat". It''s not so dated. It outlines three major styles of boats and details all the various features that make that design suited for that type of sailing. It also includes references to several production boats that come close to that "ideal" design spec.

In general, with a boat meant for off-shore, your biggest concerns are going to be how stable it will be in rough seas and how well it will stand up to rough weather. You want something that has a strong hull, oversized standing rigging, lots of ballast, probably a full or close to full keel.

These things tend to make the boat slower, so, don''t look at boats that are designed for racing.

Some excellent examples of offshore boats, the Westsail 32 (I''ve got one), the Hans Christians... I''m drawing a blank, but many of the ones modeled on the Collin Archer design... Vanguard maybe, Hinkley, Halberg/Rassey. If you want to go small, look at the Nor''sea 27.

[Jeffamc]

yea, I was told that "Nor''Sea 27''s are DOG slow"

[TrishLambert]

And some people call the Westsail 32 a WestSNAIL, but it is still a good offshore sailboat. Hans Christians and the Union Polaris 36 are cousins of the Westsail that improved on the design.

There is a newer generation with the Colin Archer legacy echoing in their design that performs better. Pacific Seacraft makes a fine line of offshore boats, as does Island Packet. Halberg Rassy and Hinckley without a doubt (though both are certainly out of MY price range!). Boats from the Tashiba yard (Pandas, Babas, Tashibas) are good.

When looking at boats, there are principles to keep in mind that underlie all the characteristics we talk about. I have gelled them into the 7 S-Factors of a Good Cruising Boat: Scenario, Safety, Seaworthiness, Seakindliness, Size, Speed, and Spend. I explain them on my website (in the Trish''s Lists section of "Free Articles"). I believe these 7 factors form the basis when deciding on the characteristics that are most important to you.

Trish
www.takehersailing.com

[Jeff_H]

I would not include Island Packet in your list of good, tradition based offshore designs. In my opinion, IP''s are good live aboards but don''t really seem configured for offshore use either by traditional design standards or modern ones.

Respectfully,
Jeff

[mdougan]

I''ve heard the comments before about how slow Westsails are (and I''d imagine the Nor''seas too), I''d say in winds less than about 10 kts, they''re absolutely correct!

But, once the wind climbs over 10kts, it doesn''t take long before I''m sailing my hull speed of 7kts.

If you''re going to be tacking a lot in light wind, then these are probably not the boat for you, but since the question was about offshore boats, then I''d suggest that when offshore, you probably won''t need to tack as often, and hopefully you have consistently 10-15kt wind, and when you don''t... that''s what the aux is for

Mike

[obiec]

I have a 38 foot Ingrid, She seams to be a good off shore boat. She meats almost all the critireas. But thay are verry heavy. There is a web page at http://hood.hctc.com/~esteve/ And you can find them for around 50k. She has a lot of sail so you have to reef at around 8 knots but that realy helps out in the light wind.

[sailingfool]

Gotta say it:
One of my fond sailing memories is beating up Naragansett Sound during a 20+ knot October breeze in a friend''s Cal 25 (with a small jib and a reef in the main), and passing quickly to windward of similarly beating Westsail 32 (flying two small foresails and a full main). Very handsome to look at, but SLOW even in a breeze!