What to buy: 30-38' w/ mod cons (catalina, hunter, etc) - Page 2 - SailNet Community
 6Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 27 Old 09-27-2011
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,518
Thanks: 104
Thanked 309 Times in 299 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
I'd agree with Jim... I remember when, 25 years ago a furling main was a $10k option... now some manufacturers are charging more for conventional (though several brokers indicated recently that we could have either for the same price.. I suspect that would be a highly negotiable item in today's market)

I think the newest line of Catalinas are going to prove more performance oriented (355/385/445) and just this weekend a local broker claims that the rigs (furling) are designed with the same or more sailing area than a conventional main. Of course that's not the whole story, the unsupported hollow leech has other issues besides lack of area.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 27 Old 09-27-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Francisco Bay area
Posts: 2,553
Thanks: 5
Thanked 62 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Classic design and true quality won't go out of fashion. Wouldn't you rather have something like this?

1983 Bristol 38.8 - New diesel! New Price! Sail Boat For Sale

Just look at all that teak!

Bristol 31.1, San Francisco Bay
MarkSF is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #13 of 27 Old 09-27-2011
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,518
Thanks: 104
Thanked 309 Times in 299 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
Just look at all that teak!
Just look at all that work!

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #14 of 27 Old 09-27-2011 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommays View Post
IMHP the sailplans that move the boat WITHOUT the big overlapping headsail are a LOT more fun on day to day use

Having gone from a J24 with race sails that required rolling to be kept alive on every sail to a Ca 29 with a roller furling headsail and Stoboom main (rolls up Fast) its just much more pleasant for day sailing and short handed cruising
Tommays....why do you say this? My friend has a Hunter 30, w/ a frac 110 headsail, and actually gets reasonably good performance compared to our former boat w/ a 155 head. Is it because they are easier to sail? I liked the 155 because with adjustable sheet cars from Catalina, I could get exact sail shape out of the head sail. I also found that I got a LOT of power out of the head sail rather than the main. That might be because I knew how to trim the head better than the main. or some other reason. Thougths?
Equitas is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #15 of 27 Old 09-27-2011 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
I'd agree with Jim... I remember when, 25 years ago a furling main was a $10k option... now some manufacturers are charging more for conventional (though several brokers indicated recently that we could have either for the same price.. I suspect that would be a highly negotiable item in today's market)

I think the newest line of Catalinas are going to prove more performance oriented (355/385/445) and just this weekend a local broker claims that the rigs (furling) are designed with the same or more sailing area than a conventional main. Of course that's not the whole story, the unsupported hollow leech has other issues besides lack of area.
Faster: As I mentioned in my prior post to Tommays, I've seen the performance of our battened main sail w/ 155 head against a furling main w/ 110 head sail of a hunter, and we raced neck and neck. That might be more of a comment on my poor sailing ability. Or on the reasonably good performance of the Hunter. I generally agree with you, that the furling main can't possibly get as good sail shape as a battened one. But is the difference between the two in performance THAT big a difference?
Equitas is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #16 of 27 Old 09-27-2011
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,518
Thanks: 104
Thanked 309 Times in 299 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
I think that generally (and to be honest I've only sailed a furling main a time or two, and have not done any kind of side-by-side with similar boats... others have.) if you're cruising and racing is not in the program then any differences are probably not significant.

The difficulty, I believe, would be coming from conventional mains, and used to looking at depth of camber, batten angles, draft etc that much of that would go out the window trying to trim a roller main (more like trimming a genoa, including always trying to get rid of leech flutter) I also believe (and others can offer more technical analysis, I'm sure) that a battened main will tend to aid pointing with improved exit angles off the leech.

For me it's also a bit about the aesthetics of it all too.....

Finally, though systems are much improved of late, there is still always the possibililty of a major malfunction in the mechanism, doubtless at the worst possible time....

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #17 of 27 Old 09-27-2011
Senior Member
 
MikeinLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 516
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equitas View Post
We used to own a Catalina 30 (1990). We very much enjoyed the boat. We then decided to renovate the house, so sold the boat. Renovations are now done, and in a few years we'll be looking to get another boat. What boats should I start looking at now which might be really good boats to own in 3 years or so.
Criteria:

Roller furling & Main
30-38'
sugar scoop (open) transom
good cruiser
passible racer.
Max $100k

I'm thinking another Catalina (we loved the big jib), but also thought of a Hunter (but I'm scared of the small jib). When did Catalina start with roller mains? How do Hunters sail? should we be looking at another mfgr?
Do yourself a favor and just go buy a Catalina 36. The newer ones are great although I prefer the chart table on the MK I

Mike
MikeinLA is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #18 of 27 Old 09-27-2011
Senior Member
 
GeorgeB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Alameda, San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,797
Thanks: 1
Thanked 48 Times in 47 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Is the question, “what should I buy, a masthead or a fractional rig?” This question alone, warrants its own discussion. In regards to the “modern” roller mains, Catalina now offers vertical batten mainsails. This puts the roach back into the main. Is this roach more than max roach allowed by PHRF? I rather doubt it, but it is a lot more than the “hollow roach” of older furling mains. You can get the batten feature in a replacement furling mainsail, just expect to pay a bit more. I have had the pleasure of test sailing the Catalina 355 (vertical battens) and have experience racing a C34 with a RF (hollow) main. The performance difference between the two rigs is noticeable. Furling mains are trimmed similar to their slab reefing brethren. You adjust outhaul to control camber depth and position – just like a loose foot (with the exception of not having a skirt) mainsail. I never understood why sailmakers don't put draft stripes and leach tell tails as standard on thier RF mains. I wouldn't have a main without them and they make it a heck of a lot easier to trim.
GeorgeB is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #19 of 27 Old 09-28-2011 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
GeorgeB: When did Catalina start w/ the vertical battens? are you saying that you can put vertical battens into an existing RF main? will the RF mechanism take it?

What ARE your thoughts about masthead vs frac rig? The hunter heads are so small, vs the catalina big heads. which are better?
Equitas is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #20 of 27 Old 09-28-2011
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,518
Thanks: 104
Thanked 309 Times in 299 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Equitas... FWIW my take on fracs is this.. A fractional rig, when well designed, manages sail area with a generally larger, more powerful mainsail coupled with the smaller foretriangle. If properly set up and adjusted, this allows a much wider range of wind conditions with reduced need to reef or furl. The mast on a frac is much more adjustable, allowing the larger main to be flattened and depowered prior to needing to reef.

In addition (and this is the big advantage IMV) the headsails are smaller, lighter, more manageable and much easier to tack than the masthead's long, overlapping genoas. Way less jib sheet length to drag around on each tack, less wear and tear on the sails themselves. In addition the spinnakers are similarly more manageable.

If you're the type of sailor that would rather just unroll a jib and leave it at that, the skinny main masthead rig might be the way to go. Many of the recent masthead designs are balancing the J and E measurements more closely, resulting in more balanced power between the two. The Catalinas are certainly not as extreme in the old IOR influenced long J short E area (although the original 38 definitely falls into that category)

Our boat is a rather extreme 3/4 frac, and we are running a non overlapping headsail. While we are certainly underpowered in drifter conditions from 6-8 knots true we beat at hull speed, and enjoy "zip-zip" tacks and frequently fly the smaller kites with just two of us.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Catalina 38 pros and cons SimonV General Discussion (sailing related) 70 04-12-2015 06:01 PM
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 15 08-25-2014 05:08 PM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Catalina 38 pros and cons SimonV Boat Review and Purchase Forum 3 08-01-2006 11:28 AM
Catalina 38 pros and cons SimonV Catalina 0 07-18-2006 10:23 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome