What to buy: 30-38' w/ mod cons (catalina, hunter, etc) - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree6Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-26-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Equitas is on a distinguished road
What to buy: 30-38' w/ mod cons (catalina, hunter, etc)

We used to own a Catalina 30 (1990). We very much enjoyed the boat. We then decided to renovate the house, so sold the boat. Renovations are now done, and in a few years we'll be looking to get another boat. What boats should I start looking at now which might be really good boats to own in 3 years or so.
Criteria:

Roller furling & Main
30-38'
sugar scoop (open) transom
good cruiser
passible racer.
Max $100k

I'm thinking another Catalina (we loved the big jib), but also thought of a Hunter (but I'm scared of the small jib). When did Catalina start with roller mains? How do Hunters sail? should we be looking at another mfgr?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 09-26-2011
night0wl's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 1,397
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 9
night0wl is on a distinguished road
I'd also add Beneteau to that list. Here are my general pro/cons for each brand and for Beneteau, each line...excluding the new Deck Salon Sense line...I just haven't seen/experienced them yet.

Hunter:
Pros:
1) cheapest of the 3 major builders (Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau) in the 30-36 foot range. Tend to get pricier in the larger models.
2) Usually have the most fancy interiors and equipment package for dockside comfort living.
3) B&R Rig (backstayless rig) may mean less complexity and overhead arch for easier control of sail rig
Cons:
1) Reputation as the poorest in build quality of the big 3
2) B&R Rig absolutely sucks going downwind...you will need a asymetrical or be doing lots of deep reaching. Likley early sail damage due to wear/chafe if you do a lot of downwind sailing.
3) They still make some compromises in construction that give me pause
4) Resalve value absolutely stinks.

Catalina:
Pros:
1) They dont cut corners in key areas. For example, they're still using lead keels in their cruising and bigger boats. They're still using *REAL* teak for interior woodwork, which makes owner maintenance easier
2) They keep their models in production a looooong time (20+ years for some) which really helps in resale value.
3) Owners are fiercely loyal to the brand so there are large groups of people willing to help
Cons:
1) Hull profiles are a bit dated vs more euro-modern (Beneteau, Jeanneau, etc). So the sugar scoops on some models look old even when new. The fact is, Catalina does so much in-house, that its often too expensive to replace tooling to adapt to a modern design feature. The flip side is that you benefit from the quality control of an in-house builder rather than some made in china outsourced supply chain! I'm a fan of this integrated supply chain technique...its a dying trend in this world today.
2) Highest pricing of the 3 production builder. Foot for foot of LOA, Catalinas are the most pricey
3) Warranty work can be a bit slow, as nearly every major claim is reviewed by Frank Butler himself. He has a reputation (at least with my dealer that sold both Beneteau and Catalinas at one time) of being ornery to work with. But the general consensus is that Catalina comes through in the end bigtime and the owners love the brand even moreso for it.

Beneteau - I will be breaking it out into the First & Oceanis/Numbers series. (Full disclosure, I own a Beneteau).
Oceanis Pros:
1) Price - they tend to be just slightly more expensive than Hunters, but pack a lot of things into it. You just cant beat the price on large vessels (40/45+ foot) when comparing to the old shoe builders. And many many of these larger Beneteaus have made transatlantic or major ocean crossings in rallies. Now, I wouldn't take a large Beneteau on an expedition on all major capes...but for the occasional ocean crossing, nothing beats the value of a larger Beneteau (or their sister company Jeanneau).
2) Performance - easily the best "sailing boat" of the 3 major builders...but Catalina is close on the Oceanis line. These boats are known to win races handily and are great buoy racers/club racers. An oceanis 46 in charter configuration has been our club champion for years and years...beating oysters, tartans, etc handily (rating adjusted).
3) Modern hull designs that are rarely more than 5 years old. The most modern (or faddish design element depending on your perspective) will likely be found on Beneteau Oceanis
4) Beneteau sells parts at what feels at a very low markup. I've been amazed at how cheap some replacement parts are on Syselios...often cheaper than West Marine/Port Supply pricing! They even sell parts on ebay. Recently, a Beneteau 343 mainsail went on ebay for $340...some lucky bastard got that. This is a $2000 sail if you get it done by one of the big lofts out there. (Kicking myself for missing out on that one).

Oceanis Cons:
1) Lots of "composite" and "laminate" materials on the interior. If you get a scratch on the wood, its a pain to repair. Sometimes some of the features are form over function.
2) Those "modern" designs right now tend to be flat bottomed hulls...these boats slam and dont like to sail heeled. Sail 'em flat and reef early and you'll do better
3) Iron keels. This is a BIG drawback (and I'm realizing this on my boat) because you are grinding out rust spots and worrying about interaction with copper bottom paints. This will be the second haulout in a row that I will have to address the iron keel. Also, Iron is less dense than Lead, so your boat is understandably more tender than the same keel profile in Lead.
4) Resale can suffer because many many many Beneteau Oceanis/number line boats are sold into the charter trade. This floods the market with Charter model boats (usually 3-cabin with a galley on either side of the vessel), which needs to be brought up delicately during a sales negotiation. There are lots of offers with "Why should I pay $40k more for your boat when there is the same Beneteau in Tortola with Moorings Brokerage for so much less"
4) Modern "faddish" designs can at times not age gracefully. Beneteau's from a few years ago with a lot of fancy design elements just look worse for the wear....think things comparaible to shag carpeting and orange laminate formica kitchen cabinets in a house from the 70s. So it goes with weird companionway hatch configurations and odd materials used in galleys and heads.
5) Beneteau churns models. Your new Beneteau will be replaced within 5 years...7 if you're lucky. This hurts because suddenly, a boat that is still relative new is considered "out of production" which can make custom parts (anchor hatch covers, interior panel covers, etc) tougher to get since the inventory of inhouse parts runs out....forcing you to customize or DIY.

Beneteau First Series
Pros:
1) Awesome performance, as is expected
2) Longer production runs (probably to encourage one-design fleets)...can be up to 10 years for some production models
3) Some of those compromises made in Oceanis line aren't made here. Lead keels on some models, taller rigs, bigger winches, better deck hardware (Harken instead of Lewmar).
Cons:
1) Can be pricey...boats are often sold WITHOUT a suit of sails!!!
2) These boats are raced hard and put away wet...owners campaign them so buying a used one can
3) Some of the design decisions can make for uncomfortable at anchor/cruising. Huge destroyer wheels, heads in the forepeak, smaller anchor lockers, etc.


This is a start...I'm sure many will add much more. I dont know much about Jeaneau, Bavaria, Dehler, Tartan, Sabres...but since Jeanneau is made by Group Beneteau and shares production and design talent, I'd imagine much holds true there that holds on Beneteau line.
__________________
S/V Jendai
Beneteau 343

Last edited by night0wl; 09-26-2011 at 05:31 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 09-26-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Equitas is on a distinguished road
NightOwl: thanks SO much for that very informative reply. I'll see what others have to say on this topic.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 09-26-2011
TQA's Avatar
TQA TQA is offline
Bombay Explorer 44
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,438
Thanks: 0
Thanked 33 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 6
TQA is on a distinguished road
If you are interested in racing see if there is an active one design fleet in your area.

Hard to go wrong with aUSA built Beneteau First .
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 09-26-2011
blt2ski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,661
Thanks: 0
Thanked 19 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 10
blt2ski will become famous soon enough
Frankly, to start looking now does squat, as the boat you run across may not be there in 3 yrs. So if you are going to start looking, be prepared to buy NOW!

With that, Depending upon the age you are looking at, I would also throw a C&C 110 or 115, possibly some of the 34-39' models that are a bit older, along with the Bene 1st series. These are probably the best race/cruisers you will find. Another altho much harder to find is the jeanneau Sun Fast line. Basically a taller main, deeper keel, better sail handing gear etc.

Otherwise, if you are looking at Catalina's, Hunter, Bene Oceanus line, you are looking at a Cruising boat at best that can be races. The Jeanneau Sun Odysseys line is a fast cruiser to slow cruise racer.

Bavaria is another that is mostly cruise, with some of the "Match" series boats as racers. DuFour also has a few of both depending upon the model.

Marty
__________________
She drives me boat,
I drives me dinghy!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 09-26-2011
JimMcGee's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Barnegat Bay, NJ
Posts: 1,360
Thanks: 19
Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 10
JimMcGee is on a distinguished road
I think NightOwl did a pretty good job summarizing the big three.

A couple of additional things...

Catalina started the sugar scoop transom on the 30 in 1994 and refined it on the Mark III that started production in '95. I think this is roughly the time period for most of their models adopting the sugar scoop transoms. In-mast furling is going to be more common on larger Catalinas and on the 309 that replaced the Catalina 30 (around 2006?).

Those thin veneers on the Hunters and Beneteaus can make the interiors look much rougher than the Catalinas after a few years (scratches, veneer lifting or substrates swollen from water). At least that was true for the mid to late 90's models we looked at. YMMV with newer boats.

Catalina does a very good job of supporting the owners of older boats -- including the fabrication of custom parts. They did a fridge lid for our 16 year old boat that included color matching the "corian-like" counter. That's the kind of service that builds loyalty.

My impression is that while Beneteau/Jeanneau have different styles they are very much the same under the skin. Some of the new Jeanneau's in particular are VERY good looking boats.

Once you're past the nit-picking it's kind of like Ford-Chevy-Dodge. Each brand has their fans and the condition of a particular boat may trump stylistic differences.

One thing NightOwl pointed out is certainly true, and that's brand loyalty toward Catalina. We're on our second, and it's not unusual to meet people who are on their fourth or fifth.

Hey boat buying is fun. And you can pretty much bet you'll fall in love with whatever boat you buy!

Best of luck,
Jim
__________________
95 Catalina 30 Island Time

ďIf a man is to be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most" - E.B. White

Last edited by JimMcGee; 09-26-2011 at 08:51 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 09-27-2011
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 11
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Equitas is on a distinguished road
All of this seems to favour Catalina. Which is good, as that was our previous boat, and we were happy with it.
However, I can't agree with BLT2SKI....I want to look now so that if I find the right boat now, I can still look for one of them in 3 years and hopefully get a better price (being 3 years older). Maybe I'll find out now, that people think a 5 year old Catalina now is great value, then by the time it is 8 years old we'll be able to afford it.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 09-27-2011
DRFerron's Avatar
A mod and her dragon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,702
Thanks: 41
Thanked 115 Times in 108 Posts
Rep Power: 10
DRFerron is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equitas View Post
I want to look now so that if I find the right boat now, I can still look for one of them in 3 years and hopefully get a better price (being 3 years older). Maybe I'll find out now, that people think a 5 year old Catalina now is great value, then by the time it is 8 years old we'll be able to afford it.
We have the same strategy. We looked at the new Catalinas at a boat show so now I have our next one chosen. By the time we're ready to move up it will be on the used market but we had a chance to see it before owner modifications.
__________________
Donna


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Catalina 30 TRFK

Contributing Editor
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
magazine

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rock Hall Cruising Station

All things that are, are equally removed from being nothing. John Donne
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 09-27-2011
tommays's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,232
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
tommays will become famous soon enough
IMHP the sailplans that move the boat WITHOUT the big overlapping headsail are a LOT more fun on day to day use

Having gone from a J24 with race sails that required rolling to be kept alive on every sail to a Ca 29 with a roller furling headsail and Stoboom main (rolls up Fast) its just much more pleasant for day sailing and short handed cruising
__________________
1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 09-27-2011
JimsCAL's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 2,363
Thanks: 1
Thanked 31 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 8
JimsCAL is on a distinguished road
Two things I note that are contradictory in your first post is roller furling main and passable racer. When I was shopping for a new boat a couple of years ago performance was one of main criteria and I immediately eliminated any boat with a furling main. The boat I bought has a Dutchman system on the main and I am very happy with the convenience that provides in handling the main. A good option if you want both performance and a easier sail handling. A good friend bought a Catalina 350 several years ago and passed on the "free" furling main, opting for a full battened main with a Dutchman system. He says when cruising with friends that own Catalinas with furling mains, the difference in upwind performance is stunning.
Faster and jackdale like this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hunter 36 Pros and Cons? turfguy Hunter 13 03-24-2014 09:34 AM
Catalina 38 pros and cons SimonV General Discussion (sailing related) 69 06-23-2012 02:44 PM
Pros and Cons of Catalina 350?? turfguy C350 6 10-16-2009 05:17 PM
Catalina 38 pros and cons SimonV Boat Review and Purchase Forum 3 08-01-2006 11:28 AM
Catalina 38 pros and cons SimonV Catalina 0 07-18-2006 10:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:26 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.