Free Standing Mast - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
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Awesome thread! Long live the Junkrig!

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S/V Frida

You can't steer a boat that isn't moving? Just like a life - P. Lutus
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post #22 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
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One of the most interesting modern sailboats with freestanding rig is "doch vetra" or "Daughter of wind", designed and built by Victor Yazikov, Russian entry in around alone.
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2006/viktor_yazykov.htm
Since article in SA, Victor finished the boat and cruise it in Atlantic. The boat is designed to selfsteer without any electronics or windwanes.
You can see a few pics in this article
http://oceanschool.ru/2011/08/yahta-doch-vetra-viktora-yazyikova/

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s/v NEMO - Freedom 28 Cat Ketch, centerboard

Last edited by CrazyRu; 09-29-2011 at 03:34 PM.
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post #23 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
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Another advantage of an unstayed mast that is not mentioned often is its response to gusts. The top of the mast bends in response to the extra wind which tends to absorb the shocks and give a smoother ride.

A disadvantage, is that you have to be extra careful about drilling and cutting too many holes in the mast walls since the stresses tend to find any weak points (eg holes that are too close together. Hinterhoeller Yachts replaced (as a warranty item) the bottom sections of many of the early Nonsuchs since they had a few fatigue failures. The replacement used a clamp system to attach things to the mast rather than through bolts - seemed to work fine.

Back home on Lake Ontario after something over 36,000 nm circumnavigator. Not surprisingly there is a lot of stuff I want to get done on Ainia both cosmetically and functionally. Getting an early start so it will be ready to go for next summer (Lake Superior?).
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post #24 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
Both ends are pointy.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
What do you mean by that. I see stays on these masts and in all I have seen:









Regards

Paulo
Yup. If you follow that link to the cambered sail page in my previous post Arne explains that evolution (devolution?) It has to do with cost and depletion of resources, i.e. trees big enough to make a free standing mast for an ocean going freighter.. Tom Colvin designs his with standing rigging too, based an the same reasoning you espouse here. There is no universal agreement.
That said, the vast majority of currently cruising conversions are free standing.

You will notice that none of those junks have spreaders. The standing rigging was an afterthought to the design.

Jeff


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S/V Seablossom Nor'Sea 27 with modern junk rig.
Just because I like it.

Last edited by junkrig; 09-29-2011 at 04:16 PM.
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post #25 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
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You mean Tom Colvin?

Here is his Gazelle design - I have seen several locally.
Attached Thumbnails
38.jpg  

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Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
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post #26 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
Both ends are pointy.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
You mean Tom Colvin?

Here is his Gazelle design - I have seen several locally.
Yeah. My stupid Android phone likes to correct words for me and I missed that one. I fixed my post before I saw yours


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S/V Seablossom Nor'Sea 27 with modern junk rig.
Just because I like it.
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post #27 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
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Finn, Laser, Freedom,Nonsuch, windsurfers, unstayed masts are not all that bad.
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post #28 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
You mean Tom Colvin?

Here is his Gazelle design - I have seen several locally.
That one (Gazelle) has not free standing masts:



American Sailing Tours

Junkrig, when I have said that I had never saw a Junk with free standing mast I meant to say a traditional Junk.

What I wanted to say was that a free standing mast is not a traditional characteristic of the Junk rig.

Of course you can have a free standing mast on a Junk rig as in many others rigs.

regards

Paulo
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post #29 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegecap View Post
Finn, Laser, Freedom,Nonsuch, windsurfers, unstayed masts are not all that bad.
I don't think they are bad but in what concerns me I would not have a boat even without a backstay.

I now that even some fast performance sailboats, like the Pogo 12.50 don't have them. However the racing Pogo 40 (that is very close) have it. I interpret that as for a not so radical utilization the boat can pass without a back-stay but if pushed hard, the back-stay is a necessity.

Then, if it is safer with backstay why I would pass without one?

Regarding free masts I don't see nothing wrong, but if they were better and safer they would be used in racing boats, and I do not mean dinghy's, and they are not. Particularly in solo racing boats were the easiness of maneuver is indispensable. Not one single free mast, to my knowledge, races on the Mini protos, class 40 or Open 60.

Can so many be wrong about what is the better, more efficient and safer way to rig a boat? I don't think so.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 09-29-2011 at 06:06 PM.
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post #30 of 51 Old 09-29-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That one (Gazelle) has not free standing masts:

I mentioned above that Colvin's designs were not free standing.

Quote:
Junkrig, when I have said that I had never saw a Junk with free standing mast I meant to say a traditional Junk.

What I wanted to say was that a free standing mast is not a traditional characteristic of the Junk rig.

Of course you can have a free standing mast on a Junk rig as in many others rigs.

regards

Paulo
We do not agree on this and I suspect that we are not going to. That is all right with me and I hope it's all right with you too.

It's one of those debates which is not subject to solving with current evidence. Given the approximately 20 centuries of "traditional" junk rig use and evolution, 20th century photos don't do it. Given my last decade of study I have formed my opinion, and that's exactly what it is... my opinion. You certainly don't have to agree with it, we can still have a nice conversation here.


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S/V Seablossom Nor'Sea 27 with modern junk rig.
Just because I like it.
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