Free Standing Mast - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 09-29-2011
LandLocked66c's Avatar
Sunsets and Warm Beer....
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Bottom of a Pint Glass...
Posts: 2,111
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
LandLocked66c is on a distinguished road
Awesome thread! Long live the Junkrig!
__________________
1971 23' Oday Pop Top
S/V Frida

You can't steer a boat that isn't moving? Just like a life - P. Lutus
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 09-29-2011
CrazyRu's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 452
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
CrazyRu is on a distinguished road
One of the most interesting modern sailboats with freestanding rig is "doch vetra" or "Daughter of wind", designed and built by Victor Yazikov, Russian entry in around alone.
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/fringe/2006/viktor_yazykov.htm
Since article in SA, Victor finished the boat and cruise it in Atlantic. The boat is designed to selfsteer without any electronics or windwanes.
You can see a few pics in this article
http://oceanschool.ru/2011/08/yahta-doch-vetra-viktora-yazyikova/
__________________
CR
s/v NEMO - Freedom 28 Cat Ketch, centerboard

Last edited by CrazyRu; 09-29-2011 at 03:34 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 09-29-2011
Bristol 45.5 - AiniA
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,220
Thanks: 3
Thanked 66 Times in 58 Posts
Rep Power: 9
killarney_sailor is on a distinguished road
Another advantage of an unstayed mast that is not mentioned often is its response to gusts. The top of the mast bends in response to the extra wind which tends to absorb the shocks and give a smoother ride.

A disadvantage, is that you have to be extra careful about drilling and cutting too many holes in the mast walls since the stresses tend to find any weak points (eg holes that are too close together. Hinterhoeller Yachts replaced (as a warranty item) the bottom sections of many of the early Nonsuchs since they had a few fatigue failures. The replacement used a clamp system to attach things to the mast rather than through bolts - seemed to work fine.
__________________
Finished the circumnavigation in early February in Grenada. Have to work on a book project for the next several months so the boat will be waiting for next year.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 09-29-2011
junkrig's Avatar
Both ends are pointy.
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 228
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
junkrig is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
What do you mean by that. I see stays on these masts and in all I have seen:









Regards

Paulo
Yup. If you follow that link to the cambered sail page in my previous post Arne explains that evolution (devolution?) It has to do with cost and depletion of resources, i.e. trees big enough to make a free standing mast for an ocean going freighter.. Tom Colvin designs his with standing rigging too, based an the same reasoning you espouse here. There is no universal agreement.
That said, the vast majority of currently cruising conversions are free standing.

You will notice that none of those junks have spreaders. The standing rigging was an afterthought to the design.

Jeff
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Seablossom Nor'Sea 27 with modern junk rig.
Just because I like it.

Last edited by junkrig; 09-29-2011 at 04:16 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 09-29-2011
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,109
Thanks: 0
Thanked 71 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
You mean Tom Colvin?

Here is his Gazelle design - I have seen several locally.
Attached Thumbnails
Free Standing Mast-38.jpg  
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 09-29-2011
junkrig's Avatar
Both ends are pointy.
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 228
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
junkrig is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
You mean Tom Colvin?

Here is his Gazelle design - I have seen several locally.
Yeah. My stupid Android phone likes to correct words for me and I missed that one. I fixed my post before I saw yours
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Seablossom Nor'Sea 27 with modern junk rig.
Just because I like it.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 09-29-2011
Arpegecap's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 62
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Arpegecap is on a distinguished road
Finn, Laser, Freedom,Nonsuch, windsurfers, unstayed masts are not all that bad.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 09-29-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
You mean Tom Colvin?

Here is his Gazelle design - I have seen several locally.
That one (Gazelle) has not free standing masts:



American Sailing Tours

Junkrig, when I have said that I had never saw a Junk with free standing mast I meant to say a traditional Junk.

What I wanted to say was that a free standing mast is not a traditional characteristic of the Junk rig.

Of course you can have a free standing mast on a Junk rig as in many others rigs.

regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 09-29-2011
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arpegecap View Post
Finn, Laser, Freedom,Nonsuch, windsurfers, unstayed masts are not all that bad.
I don't think they are bad but in what concerns me I would not have a boat even without a backstay.

I now that even some fast performance sailboats, like the Pogo 12.50 don't have them. However the racing Pogo 40 (that is very close) have it. I interpret that as for a not so radical utilization the boat can pass without a back-stay but if pushed hard, the back-stay is a necessity.

Then, if it is safer with backstay why I would pass without one?

Regarding free masts I don't see nothing wrong, but if they were better and safer they would be used in racing boats, and I do not mean dinghy's, and they are not. Particularly in solo racing boats were the easiness of maneuver is indispensable. Not one single free mast, to my knowledge, races on the Mini protos, class 40 or Open 60.

Can so many be wrong about what is the better, more efficient and safer way to rig a boat? I don't think so.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 09-29-2011 at 06:06 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 09-29-2011
junkrig's Avatar
Both ends are pointy.
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 228
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
junkrig is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That one (Gazelle) has not free standing masts:

I mentioned above that Colvin's designs were not free standing.

Quote:
Junkrig, when I have said that I had never saw a Junk with free standing mast I meant to say a traditional Junk.

What I wanted to say was that a free standing mast is not a traditional characteristic of the Junk rig.

Of course you can have a free standing mast on a Junk rig as in many others rigs.

regards

Paulo
We do not agree on this and I suspect that we are not going to. That is all right with me and I hope it's all right with you too.

It's one of those debates which is not subject to solving with current evidence. Given the approximately 20 centuries of "traditional" junk rig use and evolution, 20th century photos don't do it. Given my last decade of study I have formed my opinion, and that's exactly what it is... my opinion. You certainly don't have to agree with it, we can still have a nice conversation here.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Seablossom Nor'Sea 27 with modern junk rig.
Just because I like it.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mast Standing Rigging Spreader Replacement. sce56 Gear & Maintenance 2 05-08-2009 11:12 PM
Wire Luff Sails (free standing furling) ranes Gear & Maintenance 2 07-04-2008 03:03 AM
Free Standing Rigs Bardo Sailboat Design and Construction 3 10-20-2007 10:30 PM
hoyt free standing boom dm567 Gear & Maintenance 3 12-28-2006 07:03 PM
Modernizing the Free-Standing Rig Bruce Caldwell Buying a Boat Articles 0 12-25-2000 07:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:34 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.