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-   -   Novice at sailing and first time buyer. (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/79494-novice-sailing-first-time-buyer.html)

xhevi 10-05-2011 10:34 PM

Novice at sailing and first time buyer.
 
hi all,
I will apologize in advance if there are similar threads in this forum but i did not have any luck finding them.

First i should say that i have no experience in sailing, but always been interested in sailing and this time it will happen.

While the sailing season is coming to an end (i live in northeast) i am considering to purchase a boat, hoping i will find a good deal on a relatively well kept boat.

Even thought i am doing a lot of research and will be using this forum extensively, i need some your help and opinions to narrow down my search.

Looking for a seaworthy boat and here is what i think i will be doing with it:

1) as a beginner, close to shore/bay cruising, but as i gain experience i might want to go a little further offshore.
2) spending a few weekends on it or even take 1-2 week vacation and travel along the northeast coast. (in the future)
3) the idea of being able to put it on a trailer and haul it south its also very appealing, (but rather get a comfortable sailing boat)

I am thinking something between 22' to 28" might be a good choice.

FIRST: I am trying to start narrowing it down by the type of keel that will fit my needs best.

full keel? (not trailer-able)
fin keel? (not trailer-able)
centerboard?
shoal draft?

What do you guys recommend?

SECOND: The most common boat builders i have come across are:
1) Pearson- have read good things about them
2) Catalina- also good reviews
3) Hunter- was told to pass on these
4) O'Day

What do you guys recommend?

THIRD: inboard or outboard engine?
Leaning more towards an inboard engine (i like the clean look), but, seems like outboard engine might be easier to maintain and replace if needed.
I have seen sail boat with engines anywhere between 4hp to 33hp? Now i would think the more the power the faster i can haul my a** to the marina in case of an emergency, right?

What would be a good size engine for these kinda boats?

I have already printed out a few threads from this forum that will help me pin point any issues when looking at a boat.

All the suggestion is really appreciated, thanks in advance.

Bryce04 10-06-2011 12:48 PM

Regarding THIRD:

Sailboats are typically a displacement hull meaning they plow through the water rather than skipping along on top of the water like a planing hull. Displacement hulls have a maximum speed they can travel through the water so no, adding more HP will not get you back to the marina any faster. It will just burn more fuel :)

RobGallagher 10-06-2011 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce04 (Post 783322)
Regarding THIRD:

Sailboats are typically a displacement hull meaning they plow through the water rather than skipping along on top of the water like a planing hull. Displacement hulls have a maximum speed they can travel through the water so no, adding more HP will not get you back to the marina any faster. It will just burn more fuel :)

Just to be clear, you do want something with enough horse power to get your boat up to hull speed, or near it. That will depend on the boat and the engine combination.

One more thing, all things being equal, outboards do not perform as well as inboards in rough seas... in other words, when you may need them most.

Outboards can be less expensive, easier to work on and easier to replace if they kick the bucket.

More to think about....:eek:

Faster 10-06-2011 02:10 PM

There are some trailerable full keel boats.... the NorSea 27 comes to mind. It also has a beam that will not be problematic on the highway. If you're looking for that salty cruiser look that's a place to start. Danica/Nordica models fit into that category too.

Small keel boats can be trailered with reaonable vehicles, but require special trailers and ideally a hoist for launching.. still, smallish boats may prove to be practical on the trailerable front if the trailer is provided, and you have a sufficiently steep ramp available. Centerboard/swing keel boats are that much easier, of course.

Catalina has an enviable record with their 22 and 25 foot models, plenty of manufacturer and owner group support too.

I suggest you avoid the temptation to get 'the best of both worlds' as claimed by the Macgregor powersailor series... JMO of course.....

AdamLein 10-06-2011 02:31 PM

It was only very recently that I was in your shoes. The best advice that I ignored was to spend some time on OPBs ("other peoples' boats") before buying my own.

Right now you are asking some good questions but in many cases there is not one right answer. Instead, it will depend heavily on what you want in a boat. Right now, you have no idea what you want in a boat, besides the (correct) knowledge that sailing is awesome and you are damn well sure you want a sailboat.

So really what you should do is see what a few different boats are like. Maybe there is a local sailing club you can join, though most of them only have sailing dinghies. Look for a club or co-op that has boats in the 22-30 foot range. Around here we have a sailing co-op where for vastly less than the price of owning a boat, you get lots of time with their boats, and they will teach you a lot about maintaining a boat. If you can find something like that in your area, I would jump on it.

Another option is to get on a racing crew. "But I'm not all that interested in racing," you may say, as I did. Whatever. Pretend it's just a "daysailing crew". You will get to see how a boat's deck is organized and how her interior is laid out. The latter is especially important as it's almost impossible to change. Talk to the skipper and other skippers about why he made the decisions he did, what he likes about his boat, what he would change. Be open to the possibility that you will not be permanent crew on a single boat; seeing lots of boats is what's best for you right now. No amount of looking at pictures of boats and their interiors on the internet gives you as much information as five minutes in the cabin of a boat.

In they end you may be restricted by your budget, as I was. In my case, I got a reasonably good boat and it has taken me several years to figure out what I liked about it and what rubbed me the wrong way about it. Now I'm in a much better position to shop for my next boat, but even though I got a really inexpensive boat, the annual cost has added up quite a bit, and it sure would be great to have all that cash to put as a down payment on a boat I *know* I want.

junkrig 10-06-2011 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faster (Post 783369)
There are some trailerable full keel boats.... the NorSea 27 comes to mind. It also has a beam that will not be problematic on the highway. If you're looking for that salty cruiser look that's a place to start. Danica/Nordica models fit into that category too.

Small keel boats can be trailered with reaonable vehicles, but require special trailers and ideally a hoist for launching.. still, smallish boats may prove to be practical on the trailerable front if the trailer is provided, and you have a sufficiently steep ramp available. Centerboard/swing keel boats are that much easier, of course.

Catalina has an enviable record with their 22 and 25 foot models, plenty of manufacturer and owner group support too.

I suggest you avoid the temptation to get 'the best of both worlds' as claimed by the Macgregor powersailor series... JMO of course.....

Speaking as owner of a Nor'Sea 27 on a trailer, they are "portable" or "transportable" more than "trailerable." 8,000 lb boat, 2,000 to 2,500 pound trailer... I tow mine with a Dodge 2500 pickup with 5.9 liter turbo Cummins diesel and it still grunts from time to time. Nor'Sea delivers them (last I knew) with a Chevy 454.
Salty as h&ll, though, and roomy enough that some owners live aboard. Mine's been to Fiji but not since I bought her.
Some of them (at least 4) have circumnavigated. Not bad for a portable boat.:D

ArcherBowman 10-06-2011 04:11 PM

Well, actually, if you put ENOUGH horsepower on the back of your displacement boat, you can actually drive her UNDER. I think. I've never been able to afford that much umph for my little boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce04 (Post 783322)
Regarding THIRD:

Sailboats are typically a displacement hull meaning they plow through the water rather than skipping along on top of the water like a planing hull. Displacement hulls have a maximum speed they can travel through the water so no, adding more HP will not get you back to the marina any faster. It will just burn more fuel :)


xhevi 10-06-2011 05:07 PM

Thanks all
The main reason that I am thinking to buy a boat now and do nothing with it , but pay for storage till next season, is that i am guessing that now is the time that I can get a good deal.
I don't know if at the end the total (boat cost+ storage) will be greater then th cost of the boat if I was to wait till spring to buy one.
If I wait till spring then it will not be till like mid summer that I can sail it.

So say for a 27' moderate displacement boat, what would be the least amount oh horse power to be able to sail at hull speed?

I am looking at a 87 hunter 23' that comes with 5 hp outboard and a trailer. What do u think that's worth?
The turn off is that there no toiliet (for lack of a better term) in it and it does look small inside.

junkrig 10-06-2011 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xhevi (Post 783456)
Thanks all
The main reason that I am thinking to buy a boat now and do nothing with it , but pay for storage till next season, is that i am guessing that now is the time that I can get a good deal.
I don't know if at the end the total (boat cost+ storage) will be greater then th cost of the boat if I was to wait till spring to buy one.
If I wait till spring then it will not be till like mid summer that I can sail it.

So say for a 27' moderate displacement boat, what would be the least amount oh horse power to be able to sail at hull speed?

I am looking at a 87 hunter 23' that comes with 5 hp outboard and a trailer. What do u think that's worth?
The turn off is that there no toiliet (for lack of a better term) in it and it does look small inside.

My 8,000 lb Nor'Sea has a 10 horse Yanmar in it. 5 would be plenty for the Hunter.

I have no clue what it's worth. for that you'll need to check your local market, your wallet, and your heart. 23 is pretty small inside. Nor'Sea 27 isn't huge, you know. ;)

xhevi 10-06-2011 08:19 PM

10 horses for 8000lbs? That's very green.

I know I am not getting a 2 bedroom apartament that floats for my budget (around 4000$). But something that 3-4 ppl can live on it, for maybe a week, with out killing eachother....lol

I don't quite know what any sail boat is worth. Whatever I will pay for it now I got to add another 1000$ for winter storage....so a good deal for me would be a boat 2000$ below its value to leave some cash or any repair/mantanance it might need, to make it worth bying now.

The most important question....its worth bying now or wait till spring???


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