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post #91 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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was the golden era of "the every man's sailboat" back in the 70's and 80's? or were our boats everybit as expensive back then as these new ones are today?
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post #92 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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Having only contributed 3 years to the good of the 70's, and being too young to buy a boat in the 80's I wouldn't know... Having said that, I have the receipt from 1984 to see what the original owner paid for my boat and it wasn't much more than I paid for her in 2011! :-) Every bit as expensive as she is today - inflation excluded. ;-)

FWIW, my 1983 Contessa was *AT* the 1984 Toronto Boat Show. Too bad we don't see them there today.
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post #93 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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Prices of sailboats have stayed reasonably level as much as people think - inflation is difficult for us to assimilate:

For example a nicely outfitted Santana 20 sold for $8,000 in 1976.

That is $30k in today's inflation adjusted dollars, which is less than a new Santana 20 sells for.
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post #94 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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We'll see if that link/pic works. Probably one of the smallest cabin boat I have seen. Saw when I was 13-14 new, part of me wanted one.....then again, when a teenager, camping was fun, so it would work! The ol Guppy 13!

As mentioned, probably the 70's were the hayday of smaller affordable boats per say. Glen L design still has some smaller plywood boat, a 17 and 21' models. Step dad built a 21. San Juan 21 among others that were built and sold.........

Marty
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post #95 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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If you want to build yourself we have the Pocketship with a review by one Mr Bob Perry......whom ever he is?!?!?!?

Also a review in Woodenboat #207.

Marty

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post #96 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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For coastal cruising under reasonable conditions, there is always the catboat. The most popular sizes are 18' and 22'. These are beamy boats for their length and have large cockpits. The cabins are not for NBA types. The 18 footers will have a v-berth, a porta pottie, maybe a small counter, and not much storage space and will displace 2200-2500 lbs. A Marshall 2 would displace over 5000 lbs and get you into inboard power and more in the way of accommodations.

Almost all catboats have a centerboard, a mast far forward, and a single sail--usually a gaff rigged affair. They can stand up to stiff breezes, but you don't want to get into heavy seas that might poop you (that large cockpit can be a liability).

The 18 ft catboat I sold 15 yrs. ago had a draft of 1' 10" with the board up (5' board down). I have sailed this catboat numerous times to Block Island and have returned in winds on the order of 20 kts and was quite comfortable--except for the sore arm hanging on to the tiller with the weather helm these boats have.

One of the advantages of the catboat is the Catboat Association and the camaraderie among catboat people. Catboats are in the "cult" category and typically hold their value much better than other sailboats. Check out The Catboat Association, Inc. for more information.

I haven't owned a catboat for 15 years, but I still belong the the CBA and stay in touch with some of the friends I made many years ago.
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post #97 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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*sigh* I just got back from my third trip to the Toronto boat show. The smallest cruiser was a "gigantic" and spacious 28' TES... I don't count the Mini Transat boat that was there (6.5M). They had small dinghy's and a 22' Hunter day sailer, but nothing like what we love. Lots of Beneteau's, Jeanneau's, Hunters and Catalina's... all 30-45'.

Nothing with character like the Contessa 26 or a Nordica/Halman 20' or a Falmouth Cutter or a folk boat ... You get the idea.

*sigh*
Last year we went to the Seattle boat show and I happened to speak with the owner of Northstar (revived 'Nordic' Bob Perry boats). They had a 40 there and I asked if they had any plans to revive the original Nordic 34.. and was unequivocally told they could not make any money at that size. Even Catalina is streamlining their line and I think the 309 is the smallest keelboat they're building now.

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was the golden era of "the every man's sailboat" back in the 70's and 80's? or were our boats everybit as expensive back then as these new ones are today?
We bought our second boat at the height of an insane real estate bubble (late 1981) here in Vancouver. Boats at that time followed housing (go figure) and I found a receipt on board later showing what had been paid for the boat 10 years prior.. less than a third of what we'd paid. That was the market then. It was not an expensive boat even then but still... at that time SJ24s were fetching 16-18K, CSBs were paying 18%... it was a crazy time.

Come to think of it, real estate's gone nuts here again, but this time the boat market didn't join the insanity.

Ron

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".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
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post #98 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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*sigh* I just got back from my third trip to the Toronto boat show. The smallest cruiser was a "gigantic" and spacious 28' TES... I don't count the Mini Transat boat that was there (6.5M). They had small dinghy's and a 22' Hunter day sailer, but nothing like what we love. Lots of Beneteau's, Jeanneau's, Hunters and Catalina's... all 30-45'.

Nothing with character like the Contessa 26 or a Nordica/Halman 20' or a Falmouth Cutter or a folk boat ... You get the idea.

*sigh*
It's funny, I just wrote up a quick review of the Magnam 28 on my blog. It is one impressive package. As far as the smallest cruiser, TES had a 27 footer there as well, and there was a Hunter Edge.

I think the challenge from a builder's standpoint is that the tooling, labour and hardware costs are pretty damn close for a 25' boat and a 32' boat- the only real sizable difference is raw material cost which is often one of the smallest costs. So, you can build an opulent and character -filled 25' boat that has damn little profit at $70K, or a 32' that will sell twice as many with a decent profit, at $100-$150K.
And then once you build it you need to find dealers willing to devote some square footage to selling it, and bigger boats mean bigger returns.
From a buyer's standpoint, in this age of monthly payments, the difference between a $75K boat and a $120K boat over 240 months isn't that big... and if you can't raise the downpayment for a $75K boat you sure as hell can't make the nut on anything bigger, so you start looking at the used market, and, instead of buying a new 25' boat, you discover that you can buy a well used 30' boat for the downpayment on that new 25 footer.

And everything is just plain bigger today, and what the "wants" of a generation ago are now considered "needs".

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


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post #99 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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WDSchock, Faster, bljones... yes, of course what you say is correct and the reasons are fully understood and rehashed time & again. Don't fall into the old rut of rehashing value and cost... microcruisers and pocket cruisers are about cool little boats that can go anywhere and things that are seemingly above their station.

I'm lamenting the extinction of the breed. We know why they are gone, but they are still gone from the mainstream and that's a little depressing.
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post #100 of 176 Old 01-22-2012
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i can see where we have softened. our needs have gotten a bit out of hand. new boats are truely a thing to behold. i am thankful for the golden era. those boats are available today because the mature aged folks that had the money to buy them then are getting long in the tooth now.
i am thankful that they were made as well as they were. many have survived quite well to support the secondary market today. those buying yesterdays boat today will one day be buying tomorrow's boats tomorrow!
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