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  #11  
Old 09-27-2003
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bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about
Catalina vs Hunter

Regards, tsenater

Jeff is not the lone wolf you want to made him out to be. While at the NY/NJ Sail Expo maybe you didn''t notice that the Beneteau 423 was named best mid-sized cruiser of the year by Cruising World.

I own a 1999 Beneteau and have been nothing but happy with my boat.

In July of this year, I had the missforture of being run down from behind by a 45 ft. Sea Ray traveling 20 to 30 kts.

My boat lost her port back stay, port srouds, and suffered over 25 fiberglass fractures. The rig stood and she came home on her own iron keel over 20 miles from the site of the collision. A lesser vessel would have sunk.

Now there are Insurance poeple and Lawyers involved and come to find out the Blue Book Value of my boat (high and low) is 1,000 to 5,000 dollar,s less than the price i paid in 1999. If i can sail for a $1,000 a year i am a happy man.

I also have had nothing but good experances with the factory, parts and ect.

I think you can guess what my next boat will be.
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2003
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Catalina vs Hunter

Bubb2,

Hmmm, I guess you didn''t read or understand my post very well. I said the bene''s were pretty nice for the money, no I don''t like the fake plastic teak floor) and some of the styling and setup. Where did you read that I said the bene''s were bad??? What post were you reading? I am truly bewildered by your post. I was talking about comparing catalina''s to hunters, just like the the title of the post. My comments towards Jeff being a lone wolf were about his comments on catalina''s vs hunters.......just like what the title of this post is about.... personally I really can''t understand how beneteau''s can give you a 47 foot sailing vessel for the price they do....it trully boggles the mind.....if I was really looking at the a 47 footer and trying to get the most boat for the money, then the B473 would be on the top of my list. But I don''t think the mid 30 foot benes layouts are anything special......ps I can also easily sell my ''99 C36 for more than I paid for it.

pps. Cruising world/Sailing world gives out honors all the time....The C36 has won these awards too....just as Hunters do....as the years go by I realize more and more that these awards mean less and less....I recall the Hunter356 won an award a few years back. Well Hunter no longer has the H356 , its been replaced already after 2 1/2 years by the new 36 footer from Hunter......whats all that about !?! They change designs like a sailor changes underwear, once a year.
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2003
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Catalina vs Hunter

No way man, you need a MacGregor 26. Now THOSE are some seaworthy craft.

Fwiw, I live about 10 miles from the Catalina factory, and I see a grip of OLD, beet up, hung down, abused not to nice, not well taken care of at all, had a few horible no good downright bad days, Catalina 27''s around, and you know what, they''re all still floating around, and the ones that havent completley blown out their sails still can move all right. And you can pick them up for a few thousand if you keep a vigilent eye out.

As a general rule with sail boats, I hesitate to make general rules. Most people make a reletivley sound hull, and from there on out, it''s up to how the owners took care of her, and what "upgrades" (Note the quotes) were applied over the life of the boat. People have gone around the world in Catalina 27''s, and there are Beneteau First Series (and Oysstars, and IP''s and Pacific Seacraft and ....) lying on the bottom. Look at the boats you find for sale. ask around about whats typicaly wrong with those boats, and check to see how thats doing in this instance. Then look for everything else.

-- James
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2003
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Catalina vs Hunter

Ottville,

You''ve gotten a ton of advice already but let me add my personal experience with just buying a new Hunter anyway.

I owned an 81 Hunter 30 for several years (Cherubini design). Nice solid boat, and I do mean solid - it weighed over 9500 lbs with the fin keel. Not a particularly good sailing boat, and the interior left a lot to be desired. But, it held it''s value OK, and I learned a lot about what I wanted. Last month I bought a new H326 - after +much+ analysis of Hunter vs. Catalina. I found 2 important things. 1- the Catalinas in that size range are seriously out of date as regards interior arrangements. The Hunter folks are a lot more creative about how to use space. After having a boat with lousy interior space, I found it''s a big issue if you''re going to cruise for more than an afternoon. 2 - Hunters hold their value a lot better. I collected a lot of asking price data on H''s and C''s, then did some regression analysis to see what happened over time. The result? Catalinas cost at least 30% more when new, and 8 to 10 years later will cost the same. IOW, Catalina depreciation is a lot worse.

If I were going offshore (which doesn''t interest me in the least), I probably wouldn''t buy either. But, for sailing around inland waters, I really can''t see any significant difference in safety or performance. RE the no-backstay rig, the design is a relatively simple exercise in structural engineering, and everything I found said it works fine.

Hope this helps.

Dave...

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  #15  
Old 12-31-2003
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Catalina vs Hunter

Ottville,
You have received lots of input, from comments on topic comparing Hunters and Catalinas, to off topic comments about Beneteau''s and MacGregors. Let me tell you what I have learned based on several years of study of the big three and some old and new experiences with MacGregors. I owned a Macgregor 22 years ago. It was sturdy for lakes or rivers but it was small of spar and rig and it lacked basic ammenities. Recent outings on a 26 revealed pretty much the same thing. You can press your hand against the hull of a MacGregor 26 and make an indentation. That is not good. The Beneteaus are nice boats and I believe, well made. I followed them for a full year and that revealed some minor and major problems to condider before buying a Bene. Things like metric plumbing and parts and lack of availability or compatibility crop up frequently. A major complaint is the rust that forms on the iron keels. Rust never sleeps. Once it starts, you have to deal with it every year. Catalina uses lead. Lead doesn''t rust. At the NY/NJ boat show, Beneteau didn''t even bring any new boats (they were provided by existing owners). That turned me off. I was leaning toward benes but what does it say when the largest sailboat maker in the world can''t manage to bring a new boat to a major sailboat show? The boats they brought were nice, but they were used and strict restrictions were in place for inspecting them. Who needs that? They lost me as a customer that day. I studied Hunters over a period of two years and liked what I saw initially and especially online. They seem to provide a lot of boat for the money. The reality is this. I went to the NY/NJ boat show to look at Hunters after extensive online study. Pricewise, they seemed to be a great value as compared to Beneteau as far as equipment and ammenities. They were nicely laid out and looked good. I went over to look at the Catalina 32 at the suggestion of the Hunter salesman(who had a used Catlina 32 for sale at his yard), and that was the end of the search. The Catalina 320 and the 310 were much better boats than the comparable sized Hunters. Just walk on board and look at the winches. They are massive on Catalinas and wimpy on Hunters. Look at the masts. The Catalina masts are hefty and massive, ocean going spars, wheras the Hunters are sized for lakes and rivers and bays. In fact, all Catalinas over 30'' are CE rated class "A". That means ocean rated.. Hunters are not. My research of used boats reveals a glut of used Hunters at much lower prices than Catalinas, which hold their higher values much longer. The thickness of the fiberglass on a Catalina as compared to a Hunter is something you can see and feel. There is really no comparison in my humble opinion. Beneteaus are good boats but there are problems that will never go away until they get rid of the iron keels and make plumbing and fittings that are compatible with American chandleries. The Macs are nice, low budget boats that really need to be looked at a different level. As a result of my two year study, I have decided to buy a Catalina. It''s built to withstand ocean going (thats not opinion, thats a fact borne by the CE rating of "A". It''s construction is very sturdy and the company stands behind their product. They hold their higher values on resale much better than Hunters(just check yachtworld.com). They are really over built. They have engines that will get you through and inlet whereas the Hunters are really underpowered., Don''t get me wrong, I almost bought a Hunter based on what I read online. They are a real value. But when I saw the Hunter and the Catalina, there was no doubt as to which was the better made boat. Ray Charles could''ve seen the difference. Tim
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  #16  
Old 12-31-2003
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Catalina vs Hunter

Tim, I found the bulk of your discussion on comparing Catalina with Hunter to be interesting (if opposite in some respects the post preceding yours) but was genuinely bothered by what seems to be your blanket acceptance of the CE rating for offshore use as legitimate. I recently listened to an experienced sailor, also a technical editor for CW for some years, describe how the dynamics of the discussion and decision-making of that certifying body changed as the large volumne boat manufacturers began participating in their meetings. It was apparently a classic case of the committee designing a horse that turned out to be a camel.

The description I heard, interestingly, was not unlike the comments you made about Hunter representing itself well on the Web. They played a huge role in the standards for CE certification being watered down, using arguments that perhaps sound defensible in theoretical terms...much as I hear their brokers describe the boat''s design and construction. However, the reality is a bit different. I''m in the UK at the moment, where Hunters are sold under the Legend brand name (Hunter having already been claimed by another builder) and they make quite a big deal of being offshore rated. My impression is that this doesn''t cause any great concern here because a) most sailors see a Legend for what it is, and b) most Legends here are used as floating condos and daysailors, must as they seem to be in the States. Similarly, British boatbuilders here find the EU''s efforts to standardize boat building standards to be provincial and less than convincing, and the resulting classification system to be similarly flawed, and influenced by the high volume (and dare I say...French) manufacturers and the rivalries of the member countries.

While my knowledge of Catalinas and Hunters is fairly casual, I share some of the same impressions you do about how one brand is equipped vs. the other. OTOH I''m far less persuaded to draw conclusions about suitable use offshore based on the hardware chosen. E.g. when a stout spar tied down to the hull with conventional rigging - all of which looks right - is being whipsawed in a heavy offshore sea, I don''t think we can assume that the rest of the monocoque structure is similarly up to the task. And we do read of cases where the opposite proved to be true for mid-30''s latter day Catalinas I also see a host of details that simply don''t reflect the realities of cruising boats to distant shores. E.g. how any builder can choose to place plastic ports midships on a hull and not protect them with a rubrail, given the nature of some foreign docks, pilings, and the reality of maneuvering a boat in wind and tidal current, is beyond me. But then, as I read recently at the Catalina 34 Owner''s website, Frank Butler has apparently steered his company clear of making claims about his brand being intended for offshore cruising (as in ''cross ocean'' passages) no matter how it''s certified by an independent commision''s standards, which I think is a reasonable - and I''d guess, well reasoned - position for Catalina to take.

All of that having been said, I hope you have a great time with your new boat, and find her capable of all the sailing you intend.

Jack
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  #17  
Old 01-02-2004
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Catalina vs Hunter

final sound off from me.

I''ve found the hunters to be much more roomy down below, very comfrotable, and just bigger.

I''ve also found them to be horible sailers on the wind, off the wind, or reaching.

This only applies to the hunters I''ve sailed on. which were the 38 and the 40. For all I know, the rest may be great sailers, but if similar lines lead to similar sailing, then...

likewise, the only catalina''s I''ve sailed have been reletivley fun and fast, good sailers, but abismal below. I''ve only sailed on the 22, 27, 30 and 36 though, and one none of the much more spacious, modern ones (270, 380, etc) which are fatter, and may not sail as well. (although from what I know of the company, I doubt they''d sacrafice too much sailability)

but find a chance to inspect them both, and get some crew time in on both of them, and decide for yourself what you want and or need.

-- James
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  #18  
Old 01-02-2004
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Catalina vs Hunter

I recently bought a ''94 Catalina C270 LE, I was shopping for the best boat for my budget and needs. I''m real happy with the performance under sail. Had a friend out and I couldn''t get the wheel from him. It was in a groove and he kept muttering "over five knots and you don''t need to touch the wheel." I don''t think the maker is as important as the condition of the particular boat you are looking at. Catalina,Hunter, Beneteau, Jeaneau, or if you can afford them, C&C''s, Tartans, Pacific Seacraft etc. all make adequate to excellent boats. I think a lot a times we shop for the boat we''d like to need instead of the maybe smaller simpler boat we will use more. When you shop for a used boat what the previous owner did or didn''t do can be more immediate that what happened at the factory.
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Old 01-04-2004
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Catalina vs Hunter

O.K. Jack, say the rating of "A" offshore has been watered down a bit. whats that say about the boats still don''t meet that watered down rating
Bill
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2004
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Catalina vs Hunter

One thing it might say is that the boat''s market - and perhaps where it''s built, tho'' not necessarily - lies outside the EU, which is the only governmental entity assigning CE ratings.

But I don''t think I''ve suggested the standards have been ''watered down''. First, I''m still trying to locate the standards - somewhere, on some website, or with the help of a builder and/or publication - as I''ve yet to find them. (You would think builders would be trumpeting them to the sailing public, wouldn''t you?) Second, I''m not sure the CE ratings have been in place long enough for there to be a basis for challenging them yet, altho'' that''s only my impression at a distance.

Jack
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