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  #21  
Old 12-31-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
The rig on the Santana 30 derives from the IOR era, and is a mast head rig. Masthead rigs of that era relied on very stiff spars held in column and so produced extremely high rigging loads on the attachment points and hull. Jeff
Jeff, I beg to differ on this point. The IOR boats from IIIA on (at least) had wet noodle rigs that required expertise just to keep them up - have you forgotten the "oil derrick" 3 and 4 spreader rigs from the late 70's on? The C&C design Evergreen, a two tonner built for the Canada's Cup required the onboard presence of Tim Stearn (the mast builder) just to keep the rig UP. The Santana under discussion is, I believe, the 30-30, not the 1/2 ton derived 30 from the mid 70's.

My own 1975 custom 1/4 tonner was built for the Corpus Christie Worlds in 76 and it had HYDRAULICS on the backstay & headstay as well as running backs, without which the top 1/2 of the mast would "wow" to leeward about 4 or 5 inches. When the backstay & babystay were pumped up, the rig looked like it came from a Finn!

Hardly a focus on "stiff" or "In column".
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  #22  
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I've sailed on and/or raced all 3 boats. As usual Jeff H is right. The best of 3, for all around conditions, is the J-30. Unfortunately a good J-30 is hard to find with core problems in the transom and deck being the most common problem. The Santana 30-30 comes in 2 versions the GP model and the standard model. Both are great light air boats for racing, cruising- not so much. The S-3030 has a nasty habit of losing flow on the rudder and auto tacking in puffs. Construction quality is average. Boat was designed for MORC and meets that target nicely. The Santana 30 is an older IOR design that it is pretty stiff. Unfortunately it is slower than a Catalina 30 and is a little touchy downwind in high wind and waves. Just slightly more cruisier than the J-30. Good luck.
  #23  
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hey fellas, noone is trying to bash either boat. they are both exceptional boats. i have asked questions that were answered by experience as well as hard proven facts. on both designs. so there is no need to feel the need to retaliate or defend. we are all sailors here. regardless of experience or monitary level. i posted this comparison to learn about both designs. lets not forget, the product of the final choice here could be a life or death difference in safety.
all though none of us plan to end up in the fastnet conditions, (niether did they), we would be foolish to not prepare and train for such.
if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. that is the nature of this discussion.
  #24  
Old 01-01-2012
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Red face Choices and Options

Both models used to race in local club races. Both seem fast. One metric that should be stressed is actual livability, i.e. below decks.
When we spent a year, 1994, seeking our next (last?) boat, we were focused on boats in the 30 to 32 foot range. With several friends being very happy with their J-30's, we really wanted to like that model!

Problem was... even with the later cruising upgrade to the interior it would never have enough head room for a 6'2" guy, and even if I could adjust to the main cabin, the head compartment was way too cramped. When spending two to four weeks on board, this stuff is kinda important.

As a secondary concern, we both wanted a cockpit with backrests for the seats. While I would agree in general with the advertising from J Boats that it was designed to be a "fast cruiser" (or words to that effect), we finally had to back off for the above reasons. Great sailing boat and I would still recommend one to anyone, with those caveats.

Having spent a prior decade cruising and racing a Niagara 26, we really wanted to continue with the transom rudder, aft traveler, and fractional rig. We just needed more "living" room inside.

Nothing wrong with the Sant 30 (and similar designs) but we knew we wanted another boat with a large main and manageable fore sail sizing. We liked the smaller chute you get with a fractional rig a lot.
As fate would have it we searched for a year and finally found our Olson 34. Rig is balanced between J and E, but is of course a mast head rig. Everything's a compromise, I guess.

So, please let's dial down the conflict level. No one here is going to have the final definitive word on any comparison, anyhow. Take it all with a grain of salt, especially what I say!
Happy new year, and fair winds to you all.


LB
  #25  
Old 01-01-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Jeff, I beg to differ on this point. The IOR boats from IIIA on (at least) had wet noodle rigs that required expertise just to keep them up - have you forgotten the "oil derrick" 3 and 4 spreader rigs from the late 70's on?
Jon B;

You are correct, I should have qualified my earlier statement and said, "early IOR boats had masthead rigs that depended on very stiff spars and very high rigging loads." As you rightly note, the IOR eventually went to highly flexible spars which depended on very complex rigging geometries to keep them up. Thank you for the reminder.

In a separate matter, the question came up as to where I came up with the statement that a J-30 rates 30 seconds a mile faster than a Santana 30. Below is a link to PHRF Long Island Sound, PHRF New England and PHRF California. In New England the J-30 rates 144 and a Santana 30 rates 174. On Long Island Sound the J-30 rates 141 and the Santana 30 rates 180. In southern California the J-30 rates 138 and the Santana 30 (referred to as San 30-1) rates 180.

PHRF New England: http://www.phrfne.org/page/567[/URL]
PHRF Long Island Sound: http://www.pipeline.com/~wayneb/phrflis.htm#j
PHRF Southern California: http://www.phrfsocal.org/lookup/lookup.php?key=2

Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff_H; 01-01-2012 at 05:15 PM.
  #26  
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happy 2012 everyone! can anyone here post any pics of these venerable battle worthy sailing vessels? i love to see pics of the boats in theater all around the world.
  #27  
Old 01-02-2012
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Here are the pics and here is a link to outfitting a J30 for extended cruising.
Extended Cruising
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santana 30 or j30?-j30blue.jpg   santana 30 or j30?-santana_30_photo.jpg  
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  #28  
Old 01-02-2012
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Here is my S30....



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  #29  
Old 01-02-2012
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man fellas, those are some sexy pics! i really appreciate you guys sharring. if you get the chance post some interior pics. i love these boats!
  #30  
Old 01-02-2012
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if you go to
New & Used Sailboats for Sale in Seattle and the Northwest

they have an S3030 IIRC for sale, altho they list it as a 30 not a 3030. It does not look like the S30 newport newbie posted. hence why I think it is a 3030. I could be wrong too!

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