Boat registration/flagging

[Faster]

Originally Posted by Geoff54

Not so fast ....

Yes, of course that's correct.. and I understand it varies by state. I was mainly referring to the need (or lack of it) to pay Canadian taxes/duties upon registration as a Canadian vessel. The OP implied that he'd have to pay those upon Australian registry regardless of where he was and I'm sure he checked that out.

Taxes and fees in the area of use are something else altogether.

Our friends are sailing in the Eastern Caribbean outside the USA and have not run into such fees other than the relatively modest clearance and cruising fees one finds in that region.

[TQA]

Originally Posted by Geoff54

I looked into BVI registration a couple of years ago and you had to be a resident or set up a BVI corporation with a local administrator, usually the law firm who set it up for you (my terminology may not be correct).

Not sure about the USVi but I would have thought the same as the US.

Not quite the case for the BVI

The following persons are eligible to be owners of a British Virgin Islands Ship:

Citizens and/or Bodies corporate registered in the British Virgin Islands and any of the following:

United Kingdom and it's Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories.
Nationals of and bodies corporate incorporated in;

Member State of the European Community (EC) or
European Economic Area (EEA).
Overseas Territory of Member of EC or EEA.
(Bodies corporate must have a place of business in such Member State or Overseas Territory) Bodies corporate incorporated in a Member State of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM) or the Organisation of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS) (and registered in the BVI.)

Also for the USVI my understanding was that you did not have to be US citizen when I looked at it.

[knuterikt]

Originally Posted by shanedennis

For Australian registration we would be required to pay import duty on a boat that may never make it to Australia.

Are you sure this is correct? I would think the import duty must be payed on entry to Australia..
At least that's the way it works for Norwegian registry if you buy a boat outside the EU.

[sailingfool]

Originally Posted by Geoff54

Not so fast

I took a look at MA sales/use tax because I will be moving there later this year. And this is my understanding (any real experts feel free to correct anything I've got wrong - I'd like to know as well).

MA sales or use tax is a one time tax (in addition to the annual excise tax) which is 6.25%, less any similar amount that you have paid to another state for that boat. It is payable if you keep you boat in MA longer than you keep your boat any other single state or juristiction. It doesn't matter where you live, only where your boat lives the most.

Now enforcement is another question. If you overstay by a couple of days I don't see you getting caught but apparently a RI boat (next door state with no use tax) that spends a lot of time in MA tends to get noticed. Ask John Kerry who boat was legal but sure got noticed.

So, go ahead, register it as Canadian but don't keep it in MA unless you want to pay use tax.

A use tax is due after 60 days in MA. You get credit for sales tax paid in a reciprocal state, which is not all states, somewhere in the state info is a list of qualifying states.

[Panama lawyers user]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

dennis, you and your wife can form a corporation or LLC and as long as she owns 51% of it, the corporation can own a US-documented boat.

You said you would pass through on the Panama Canal. (sidenote: Panama is a great place for spending a little time to enjoy the local maritime attractions). I think this law firm, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX&XXXXXXXXXXXXXX could help you. They are located in Panama and specialize in vessel registration in Panama as well as offshore banking, incorporating, and investing. I think for this situation they would be great for consulting seeing as they specialize in both areas of maritime law/registration and offshore IBCs. They might just be able to help in this unique situation.

[sck5]

state registration wont work in the Caribbean. Most islands will insist on CG documentation or equivalent from another country

[Chris12345]

Hello Sailor,

a lot has changed since you were young; according to recent history, the country that most needed, and at least partially got, an attitude adjustment was yours.

Now a short lecture on your own gouvernment, which you don't seem to fully understand:

The gouvernment of the united states is the federal gouvernment. Which documents vessels.
Such vessels are US documented vessels to the rest of the world.

If some German city council issues a boating permit for a local lake, or a US state generates some state registration, the boat in question is NOT a US or German documented vessel to the rest of the world.

That's the way it works for everybody. You are not entitled to special treatment just because you are a 'Merkin.
Which, by the way, is the attitude that needs to be adjusted, according to the rest of the world.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

dennis, you and your wife can form a corporation or LLC and as long as she owns 51% of it, the corporation can own a US-documented boat.
As to Germany...If you have any problems with Germans not recognizing other governments and insisting that things must be done The German Way, just ask them if they'd really prefer to have their ground salted and plowed under--all of it--next time they need an attitude adjustment versus respecting the rest of the world.

Oh, and that? Looking down on cuckoo clocks? From the very people who brought us the Chevrolet??

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Goods at making cuckoo clocks, not so good at anything requiring flexibility.

[hellosailor]

No one looks down on Cuckoo clocks. Besides, those belong to the Schoenwald or Black Forest, and not to "Germany". You will find that Germany, like the Federal Republic of the United States, is composed of older and smaller regions that had their own sovereigns.

Only in the case of the US, limited sovereignty was granted to the Federal Republic. The States still retain some rights. That a German should be ignorant of this is no surprise. Most Americans are ignorant of the fact that our northern neighbor is a confederation of provinces, with varying provincial laws, rather than "one state".

Germany, as a nation? Yes, right, that's how old now in the newest reunification?

And as any Bavarian can tell you, a BMW is a Bavarian product, not a German one. to confuse the two is almost as insulting as calling a Parisian merely "French". Not at all the same thing, even if they buy their passports from the same office.

[Chris12345]

Look who re-discovered his political manners! Welcome back to the civilised world.

But you should not lecture about Europe, it sounds as if your last visit had been in a landing craft, and also as if your memory was a bit weak:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

No one looks down on Cuckoo clocks. Besides, those belong to the Schoenwald or Black Forest, and not to "Germany". You will find that Germany, like the Federal Republic of the United States, is composed of older and smaller regions that had their own sovereigns.

The Schwarzwald is schoen, but still called Schwarzwald, not Schoenwald.
And it is not a German state, it is a geographical region.
Do you also believe the US have a governor of the blue ridge mountains somewhere?
And YOU were the one who said the clocks were "German".
I know where the things come from.
Don't correct me on nonsense that you said, please.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Only in the case of the US, limited sovereignty was granted to the Federal Republic. The States still retain some rights. That a German should be ignorant of this is no surprise. Most Americans are ignorant of the fact that our northern neighbor is a confederation of provinces, with varying provincial laws, rather than "one state".

Seems I am less ignorant of the structure of the American federation than you are. German and US states are actually pretty similar that respect: The individual states retain varying degrees of certain souvereignity INTENALLY. Neither of them have ANY external souvereign rights. Foreign policy is handled exclusively by the federal gouvernments.
States are allowed to imagine more souvereignity than that, but attempts to act on that imagination will bring in the national guard. In both countries.
Or when did you last hear that the ambassador of California visited the King of Bavaria?
Federal affairs include international documentation of boats, in both countries, to at least touch lightly on the original topic.

And hey, other than Germany, the pre-federal US states did not really have their own 'souvereigns'.
I know you guys are longing for your own royal family, but sorry: No such thing.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Germany, as a nation? Yes, right, that's how old now in the newest reunification?

Well, clearly not the oldest country, but way older than yours, my friend.
And I can say that with some confidence without even knowing exactly where you come from.
Reunification changes that as little as acquisition of a state or loss of a military base does for the US.
Plus, what does the age of a federation have to do with federal vs. state rights at all?
Or with anything?

Originally Posted by hellosailor

And as any Bavarian can tell you, a BMW is a Bavarian product, not a German one. to confuse the two is almost as insulting as calling a Parisian merely "French". Not at all the same thing, even if they buy their passports from the same office.

Your mind is wandering again. What do BMWs have to do with anything?
And your mid is also lost, because Mercedes are the much cooler cars.
And you don't "buy" passports.
Different legal transaction, carries jail time in both countries.

Sorry, but this was pretty much the highest density of BS I have seen in a while.
If our knowledge of boat registration is similarly bad, don't give advice to people who might believe it.

[SOVT]

Personally I wouldn't go into foreign waters without a USCG Documented boat. Another consideration is dealing with the various customs authorities in European waters. It is my understanding that they will charge the VAT levy on boats where the owner and boat are not of the same nationality.