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  #1  
Old 11-15-2003
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Mr Jeepers is on a distinguished road
Give me a heading, PLEASE!

So, Iím kind of stumbling through this whole thought process of what boat will fit my needs. After seeing thousands and sifting through hundreds of classifieds Iím sufficiently frustrated. Many of the qualities I want in a boat people do not feel compelled to disclose in an ad. I am surprised at the number of ads that say nothing about something as basic as the type of keel or rudder the boat has. Unless you are privy to vast amounts of nautical knowledge (and then some) your next alternative is to spend half the amount you intend to spend on the boat on phone calls to ask these very basic questions. Thus, if I could pick the brain of those of you who are in the know I would be eternally grateful. So far this is what Iíve come up with for the qualities Iím looking for, any others you think I should be considering please mention them too.

Partial skeg hung rudder - Cutaway traditional keel w/ a soft bilge - Wheel steering w/ manual back up and Autohelm -
Moderate beam - Moderate freeboard - Medium to heavy displacement - Poured lead ballast - Steel or Solid fiberglass hull w/ minimal overhangs - Overall solid construction (Sub-floors, sufficient # bulkheads, longitudinals, through-bolted hull-to-deck joint etc) - 130 degrees or more in range of stability - Aft cockpit large enough to enjoy sitting in w/ 4 adults it should drain fast - Plenty of bilge power (some to be controlled from cockpit) - High bridge deck or hatch companionway - Stainless double life lines - Stern and bow pulpits (I know a bowsprit extends the sail plan and I think it looks nice but could this be detrimental?) - Dingy davits (and a dingy to hang on them) - Roller furling - Two speed winches - Manual Windlass w/ gypsy and wildcat - Rig type depends on singlehandability although Iím guessing sloop - All lines led aft/single handed sailing ability required - Navigation and anchor lights - Dodger and bimini - Keel stepped mast unless thereís a well designed alternative - Main w/ 3 reef points (storm jib and storm try sail) - Diesel engine w/ 2+hp for every thousand pounds displacement - Large fuel capacity - 110v/12v electrical - Shore power - Wind or solar generation (wind preferred) - Centerline (near center) galley sink - Stove w/ oven (are kerosene/diesel cookers a good choice?) - Walk in pantry and scads of counter space (j.k.) a good amount of stowage would be nice though - Two staterooms - Only one head is necessary (two would be nice) needs shower preferably w/ its own stall - Pilot berth or equivalent is required - A non-fixed, off to the side, or fold up dining table -
Good working room access around power plant - Separate navigation station w/ large table and flat chart stowage - As far as electronics go Iím not a Luddite but Iím feeling rather pure these days and donít want to over gadgetize (we will have a laptop on board though so if the bells and whistles can harmonize I guess I wouldnít mind hearing their song)

This boat will be used to live aboard and eventually to circumnavigate. My wife and I are in our young 30ís and physically fit. I want something that will be responsive yet stable and balanced and have decent windward performance. We really would like to keep this thing under 40í but realize that may not be possible and are willing to look at vessels up to 43í. Our budget including fitting out is 70-90k. 70k is better than 90k especially if sheís ready to cruise the coast for a few years w/ a possible hop to the V.I. (Iíll put the other 20k in as we goÖ no doubt). Right now Iím really interested in the right direction to look. I wonít be buying for about ten months and would like suggestions on manufacturers, models and year of manufacture. If anyone could tell me also what the average time on the market for boats of this nature is thatís something Iíve been wondering about too. I know that some of the items I mentioned are add-ons but I thought Iíd mention them because they may add to the total cost of fitting out and if I donít have to buy it that would be best (many boats have roller furling true but they donít all come with it).
All help is greatly appreciated
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  #2  
Old 11-16-2003
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Give me a heading, PLEASE!

I see why you are having problems finding that right boat. I must say that you have described a nearly mutually exclusive list of requirements. It reads like a collection of great ideas from cruising textbooks but from different textbooks by authors who disagree with each other. Collectively you are describing a very customized boat on a high production boat budget.

Some of these items make sense (i.e glassed in Sub-floors, sufficient # bulkheads, longitudinals, through-bolted hull-to-deck joint etc - 130 degrees or more in range of stability) but some are a bit strange (Walk in pantry, A non-fixed, off to the side, or fold up dining table). Some are just plain mutually exclusive (Cutaway traditional keel w/ a soft bilge, Medium to heavy displacement vs responsive, yet stable and balanced and have decent windward performance. It won''t happen, at least not in your budget.)

The few boats that I can think of that might come close either are too expensive, or midships cockpit, or don''t have poured (I think you mean cast)lead keels, or don''t offer the sailing characteristics that you seek or fail on some other major irreversable way.

There may be a make or model out there that has slipped my mind, but I can''t think of it at the moment.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Old 11-16-2003
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Give me a heading, PLEASE!

There is an awful lt of mutually exclusive desires in your list, and can''t think of any that meet your goal in the target price range.

Here''s are some examples of where you may want to sharpen your list:
--Good windward vs mod to heavy displ... (in reality you will find moderate to be as far as you can push that idea)
--Skeg rudder w cutaway forefoot on full... It''s going to be one or the other.

Some of your requirements would be more usefull if they were specific (ie freeboard under 35 inches vs moderate).

You may want to do a bunch of searching on Yachtworld.com to look at a lot of accomodation plans and hul forms. The on-the-hard photos often fill in blanks

The large nav, seperate shower, two staterooms, and lots ot galley counter are mutaully exclusive in the size range. You may get two or perhaps three of the four. People don''t shrink.

In your size and price range, plan on replacing some systems that have a live span of 10-15 years. You might as well assume that design improvements have made 10 year old standard blocks, roller furling and electronics as items ready for replacement.
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Old 11-16-2003
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Mr Jeepers is on a distinguished road
Give me a heading, PLEASE!

OK Tis true I''ve been reading a bunch of books. I should point out to both of you though that "j.k." means just kidding(walk in pantry scads of counter space? c''mon, in a 40 footer? Twas a joke fellas), decent doesn''t mean great and although a medium to heavy displacement boat won''t be as responsive as a sunfish some surely are more responsive than others.

So, if you don''t mind maybe it would be best to skip my list and focus on the last paragraph. Since I clearly don''t know the right questions to ask about process it would be best to focus on the goal. Liveaboard, coastal cruising, hop to V.I., eventual circumnavigation, under 40''(upto 43'') two stateroom, 70-90k budget. Is that simpler or is it now too broad?
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Old 11-16-2003
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Magic_Moments is on a distinguished road
Give me a heading, PLEASE!

I went on Yachtworld and picked out a few boats. None of them will meet all your requirements for your price range, but you could pick and choose and lots of boats will come on the market in the next year. Boats in the 40 foot range can be on the market anywhere from a day to 3 years, depending on how popular and how set up they are and how the seller prices it. One boat I looked at nearly 4 years ago is still available because the owners have it priced well above the market.
Look at;
Mariner 36; skeg hung rudder, galley, nav and salon
Morgan 382; has a shower stall and nice layout
Mariner 39;not sure on this because its a center cockpit, but it has two staterooms.

I don''t know how any of them sail and I have only been on the Mariner 36. All of them are older 20-25 years, but they are a start if you want to go looking.

My question is; How set are you on buying one boat and keeping it for life? My reason for asking is; you would have an easier time buying a boat to sail and live on now and use that boat and others you see on your travels to decide on what your around the world boat shall be, than to buy the ultimate sailing ship and then not get to circumnavigate due to the expense of keeping it up or just getting sidetracked by life.
Good luck in your search. I love to look at boats.

Ken
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Old 11-16-2003
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paulmcquillan is on a distinguished road
Give me a heading, PLEASE!

Here''s a few others that may fit most of your requirements (using stability, windward sailing, galley and shower as key criteria):
C&C Landfall 38
Newport 41
Catalina 38 (the S&S designed one)
Amel Santorien
Tartan 40, maybe Tartan 37
possibly the Wauquez Pretorien 35
maybe the Hallberg Rassey 352
and as a ringer w the walk-in pantry,,, J-32

I''ve happily sailed on five of these, the Amel and HR are a guess
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Old 11-17-2003
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slipacre is on a distinguished road
Give me a heading, PLEASE!

I was looking for a similar boat - a perfect one- in your price range. I too had too many opinions and too many ideas for my own good. And I went in many circles.
Buying a boat fully equipped with your prefered gear at your price won''t happen - and the gear will be used and need replacing sooner rather than later.
Suggest you consider looking well below your price range as you will need more money to fix it up / prepare for cruising than you think. I used to think that sixty thousand or so was a lot of money - and some places it may be, but you''ll be amazed at what it won''t get you. I ended up with a compromise one that has some things I did not want and is missing other things I would like to have - but I ended up with a boat I love - one that does not pass many other boats, but one that is comfortable - only requires every third hour spent on maintainance and repair and one other thing - It''s Mine. And I paid about 35k for it. I would not take it across the atlantic as she is. Many things would need be beefed up. People have taken lesser boats around the world. I''m not sure that''s my goal
On the other hand if you look in places where cruisers tratitionally end their cruising you might find something closer to what you are looking for. A place I''ve heard mentioned is Trinidad. Trouble is that a trip there to look at a boat is an investment in itself.
Todd V
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Old 11-18-2003
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sailnaway is on a distinguished road
Give me a heading, PLEASE!

Try Pacific Sea Craft Tor Pinney sailed one all around and is the manager or was for the company. They make a fine boat heavy well constructed and double ended so sea kindly.
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