What is your opinion of Bavaria's? - Page 5 - SailNet Community
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post #41 of 50 Old 04-01-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
...
"Good enough" perhaps, but still, not "Done Right"... (grin)
Yes, I agree with you and would like to give an advice to all that buy new mass production boats, Bavarias or any other brand.

As Jon said the rig tunning is very important. I would say that modern boats rigs are well designed to the loads of the rig but everything is mounted by the dealer...and that can be a very dangerous thing. I have heard some astonishing stories about the way some rigs are mounted and tuned by dealers.

So a word of advise: Chose a big dealer that have a lot of experience with the boat. Try to be there when they mount the rig and talk with the rigger to see if he does not put some boy doing the work and check properly the work done.

If not, before doing some serious sailing with the boat go to a "official" rigger from the brand of your mast (warranty issues) and ask him to tun the rig. You are going to be surprised with the quantity of work needed and with what he is going to say about the ones that had rigged the mast...at least that was what happened to me.

Regards

Paulo
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post #42 of 50 Old 04-01-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

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i guess that a boat that has made a circumnavigation (or two) will be able to head for bermuda. I know it is ruff, but you have just to take it with care and to know what you are doing. Probably the boat can handle more than what you are able to or at least more than what 99.5% of the sailors can handle.
+1.

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post #43 of 50 Old 04-01-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

if you're in the market for a boat, ask catalna owners for reasons not to buy a catalina. you'll start looking at catalinas all over again.
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post #44 of 50 Old 04-01-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Again, you're right about that, but I still don't like the practice, and I've seen it elsewhere, in some very surprising applications...

For example, you'll rarely find a boat built to a much higher standard than Cherubini does... Yet, I was stunned to see U-bolts instead of chainplates for the main and mizzen shrouds on the 44 shown at Annapolis a few years ago... And, yes, the lowers were, too, ever so slightly misaligned... (grin)



Chainplates can be a tricky thing to get right on any rig other than one with inline shrouds... On boats with fore and aft lowers, there is almost always some degree of misalignment to the load, for to get it just so usually requires the chainplate bulkhead to be slightly angled, or the chainplate itself either bent, or twisted... Few builders bother to go to such lengths, even the Valiant 42 I took south last fall, the chainplates for the lowers were absolutely vertical and ran athwhartships, and relied on the insertion of a toggle to improve the modest degree of misalignment...

"Good enough" perhaps, but still, not "Done Right"... (grin)
The lower shrouds on my Col. 43 are essentially U-bolts - they are a stub of stainless strap welded to a large stainless plate which acts as a big backing plate - the stub passes through the deck like a conventional chainplate. All the uppers are conventional long straps bolted to bulkheads etc. It has kept a 66' stick standing for 42 years despite years of serious neglect and the boat has sailed from N.Y. to San Francisco so I guess it's adequate.

I've never, to the best of my knowledge, seen a chainplate perfectly aligned with the shroud attached to it - that's the reason for toggles.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #45 of 50 Old 04-11-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
The lower shrouds on my Col. 43 are essentially U-bolts - they are a stub of stainless strap welded to a large stainless plate which acts as a big backing plate - the stub passes through the deck like a conventional chainplate. All the uppers are conventional long straps bolted to bulkheads etc. It has kept a 66' stick standing for 42 years despite years of serious neglect and the boat has sailed from N.Y. to San Francisco so I guess it's adequate.

I've never, to the best of my knowledge, seen a chainplate perfectly aligned with the shroud attached to it - that's the reason for toggles.
NEVER??? Really? Hmmm, perhaps you need to come back to the East coast, and have a look at some Proper Yachts... (grin)

Toggles are best used for dealing with variable and eccentric fluctuations, such as those due to things like headstay sag, and pumping... They are certainly not intended to correct to sort gross misalignment I was referring to...

Not sure I completely understand your description of your U-bolt arrangement, but there's no question a U-bolt can be made strong enough for a particular application...

My problem with U-bolts that I see on today's boats, is that the clevis pin will be subject to point loading, rather than having its load distributed over its full diameter when held captive within a properly sized chainplate hole.

I doubt there are many riggers out there who would consider a u-bolt attachment superior to a proper chainplate, and that's one reason you'll never see u-bolts in lieu of chainplates on boats built by Swan, Perini Navi, Royal Huisman, and the like...
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post #46 of 50 Old 04-12-2012
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

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Not sure I completely understand your description of your U-bolt arrangement, but there's no question a U-bolt can be made strong enough for a particular application...
Picture the top few inches of a conventional strap chainplate - the part the protrudes through the deck and receives the turnbuckle. Underneath the deck that stub is welded to a large flat S/S plate that is bolted to the underside of the deck.

Not the way I would have designed it but, as I noted, it has worked for 42 years including at least one trip from coast to coast via Panama, so I guess Tripp knew what he was doing.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #47 of 50 Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

Back to Bavaria...
I've own a B38 since 2010. It's the 2004 production, commissioned in 2005. The 2004 model is actually a true 40ft (12.3 meters). The 2003 & 2006 are 38ft. I own the 2-cabin owner version, with deep keel, tall rig and larger engine option (Volvo 55 hp).
This boat has impressed me. Quality of wood work, of rigging (Selden), winches (Harken), etc. everything is well build. You can watch Bavaria's production videos on YouTube to convince you. Hull is reinforced with Kevlar. It's has proven to be very seaworthy even in big seas. It's keel and rig allow this boat to sail fair at up to 30 deg to the wind, though 35-40 deg is much better.
It has weaknesses. For one its heavy - though for blue water cruising this can be an advantage - and thus not very fast. I mostly sail in 20-25 kts winds at a speed of 8-9 kts.
The rudder itself and bearings are weak for serious offshore. I had it rebuilt and reinforced.
The keel issue is not a Bavaria issue but a real concern for all modern "budget" minded sailboats. Again, on my boat I had the keel attachment redone and beefed up.
Every boat has issues, know your boat and tweak it for your type of sailing.
Overall I am very please with this boat.
My 1st mate and I are considering a world tour in a few years and question if we invest on this hull or get a bigger boat. A 50+ foot would be nice, but the big advantage of our B38 is that it is cheap to run.
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post #48 of 50 Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

I ve got since 1 year a fantastic bavaria 40 avantgarde 2012 farr design. Up to now a wonderful boat. Beside on my same marina I ve got other 10 bavaria that have cruised and raced for years crossing even atlantic.. no reports of abnormalities whatsiver up 2 now....

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post #49 of 50 Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

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Originally Posted by Otia View Post
........
My 1st mate and I are considering a world tour in a few years and question if we invest on this hull or get a bigger boat. A 50+ foot would be nice, but the big advantage of our B38 is that it is cheap to run.
Seems to me you've addressed the major 'shortcomings' of the factory version, if these jobs have been well done then you've already got a boat you know well, can handle easily and that should be (now) up to the task.

Not sure I'd want to 'start over' with a bigger boat - esp since it may well need much of that work/upgrades all over again.
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post #50 of 50 Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Re: What is your opinion of Bavaria's?

As usual, Ron is right - ease of handling and cost (for most of us) should be primary considerations. A boat around 40' is a better choice for a couple going cruising. You don't want to have to be dependent on labour saving gear and the loads on a 50' mean that sort of stuff is essential for a couple.

My biggest was 43' and humping a genoa or main on deck, even on land was pushing me - and I'm over 6' and (way too far) over 200 Lbs.

I can't imagine doing it at sea in bad weather.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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