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  #51  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: Yacht Brokerage Law and Ethics

I don’t think there is a listing contract out there that doesn’t have a provision for the owner selling the boat himself. There is nothing unethical about this. If the [jilted] offeror really wanted to make a play for the boat, he should had upped his bid 6-10% so it would be more in line with the other offer (i.e. pay for the broker’s commission yourself). That might have tipped it your way. But it might not. No two offers are ever the same. Was your bid “as is”, no survey and a cash deal? Maybe the seller just wanted to sell to boat to uncle Bob or a friend. Did the seller specify how long his acceptance period was? He doesn’t have to accept the first offer that comes along. Did the boat ever sell? Perhaps the first deal fell through. You will have to go a long, long way to prove discrimination. Chances are you would lose the case and wind up paying more than boat is worth to your lawyer.
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  #52  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: Yacht Brokerage Law and Ethics

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
I donít think there is a listing contract out there that doesnít have a provision for the owner selling the boat himself. There is nothing unethical about this. If the [jilted] offeror really wanted to make a play for the boat, he should had upped his bid 6-10% so it would be more in line with the other offer (i.e. pay for the brokerís commission yourself). That might have tipped it your way. But it might not. No two offers are ever the same. Was your bid ďas isĒ, no survey and a cash deal? Maybe the seller just wanted to sell to boat to uncle Bob or a friend. Did the seller specify how long his acceptance period was? He doesnít have to accept the first offer that comes along. Did the boat ever sell? Perhaps the first deal fell through. You will have to go a long, long way to prove discrimination. Chances are you would lose the case and wind up paying more than boat is worth to your lawyer.
Exactly right - I think the words "sour grapes" and/or "sore loser" apply here. His time would be much better spent searching for a new candidate amongst the 10's of thousands of boats for sale than whining here and contemplating legal action over a missed deal.
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  #53  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: Yacht Brokerage Law and Ethics

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Moreover, the Broker is the Seller's (contract) employee and hence his/her interest, and in fact fiduciary obligation, is aligned with and to the Seller.
Without seeing the listing contract how can you know what the brokers relationship to the seller is? Generally the broker is the agent of the seller, not an emplyee of any kind. I have never heard of a broker being considered an employee of the seller unless he/she worked for a dealership as an employee and was selling the dealers inventory.

Employee and agent are two different legal things.
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  #54  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: Yacht Brokerage Law and Ethics

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Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
Without seeing the listing contract how can you know what the brokers relationship to the seller is? Generally the broker is the agent of the seller, not an emplyee of any kind. I have never heard of a broker being considered an employee of the seller unless he/she worked for a dealership as an employee and was selling the dealers inventory.

Employee and agent are two different legal things.
Yes, Yes that is entirely correct from a "Black's" perspective. Here, in a general discussion without reference to strict nuance, I used the term in the sense that one "employs" an agent. Strictly speaking, of course, one "engages" an agent. Whether referred to, albeit loosely, as an employee, or not, the Agent's duties are the same and reasonably strictly defined--beginning with a fiduciary duty to the person by whom they are engaged, no? Moreover, I suggest that the majority of folks, outside the courtroom, would consider that their "Agent" is working for and on their behalf.

Here Homer nods...
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  #55  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: Yacht Brokerage Law and Ethics

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Why do you ask? Are you contemplating such a silly thing?

Most folks are interested in only two things when they offer a yacht for sale: Can/will the buyer pay for it as agreed?; and, If I sell my boat to this person, will he/she be able to properly care for and preserve it? (considering that most boat owners anthropomorphize their boats to a "she").

I have declined an offer on a boat because of the latter. It didn't matter a wit what the prospective buyer's race, religion, color, creed or taste in women was-- ah, well, taste in women maybe a bit.
I ask because many have stated that a seller and/or a broker can sell to whoever they want so stop crying about it. This implies no rules apply to such transactions and therefore there is no potential legal action available. I suggest there are some basic laws that may apply.
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  #56  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: Yacht Brokerage Law and Ethics

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Yes, Yes that is entirely correct from a "Black's" perspective. Here, in a general discussion without reference to strict nuance, I used the term in the sense that one "employs" an agent. Strictly speaking, of course, one "engages" an agent. Whether referred to, albeit loosely, as an employee, or not, the Agent's duties are the same and reasonably strictly defined--beginning with a fiduciary duty to the person by whom they are engaged, no? Moreover, I suggest that the majority of folks, outside the courtroom, would consider that their "Agent" is working for and on their behalf.

Here Homer nods...

Didn't mean to strike a nerve there, Homer. The OP is discussing legal recourse as an option so imprecise terms sort of muddy his position a bit.

Without seeing the listing agreement none of us know who the agent represents or what the conditions of his/her agency are.

Here in South Florida this stuff gets litigated all the time and the language is often the deciding factor. We all know what happens when you assume.

Anyway, no offense meant.

Last edited by sailpower; 03-29-2012 at 11:25 PM.
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  #57  
Old 03-29-2012
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Re: Yacht Brokerage Law and Ethics

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Originally Posted by jkemp101 View Post
I ask because many have stated that a seller and/or a broker can sell to whoever they want so stop crying about it.
I actually considered this point when I wrote that the seller is free to reject for any reason. I believe that laws against racial, gender, and age discrimination MAY apply here. However, the OP did not say anything about suspecting this, so I doubt it's a factor here.
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  #58  
Old 04-05-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkemp101 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Why do you ask? Are you contemplating such a silly thing?

Most folks are interested in only two things when they offer a yacht for sale: Can/will the buyer pay for it as agreed?; and, If I sell my boat to this person, will he/she be able to properly care for and preserve it? (considering that most boat owners anthropomorphize their boats to a "she").

I have declined an offer on a boat because of the latter. It didn't matter a wit what the prospective buyer's race, religion, color, creed or taste in women was-- ah, well, taste in women maybe a bit.
I ask because many have stated that a seller and/or a broker can sell to whoever they want so stop crying about it. This implies no rules apply to such transactions and therefore there is no potential legal action available. I suggest there are some basic laws that may apply.
I think a lot of people who work with sellers agents of most types of property forget that the sellers agent represents the seller only. If you don't have a buyers agent, then often the sellers agent will appear to you to be representing you as well because it behooves them to make the sale close,
This is just how business is done. I agree it can be tough to be someone without an agent representing you dealing with a professional broker, but if the monies are big enough to get so worked up over it it probably is in your best interest to have a buyers agent as well.
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  #59  
Old 04-05-2012
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Re: Yacht Brokerage Law and Ethics

Both the buyers agent and sellers agent are most often paid by the seller (ie, they split the commission). You may have a buyers broker that is on your side, but there is someone else buttering their bread. Beware.
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  #60  
Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Yacht Brokerage Law and Ethics

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Both the buyers agent and sellers agent are most often paid by the seller (ie, they split the commission). You may have a buyers broker that is on your side, but there is someone else buttering their bread. Beware.
Very true although it is the same in Real Estate as far as the seller paying the commission.
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