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  #21  
Old 04-09-2012
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

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Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I don't quite understand your reservations on what you refer to as deep draft. A draft of 6 1/2' can go anywhere, with the possible exception of some of the Bahamas. Generally a boat with deeper draft is better to windward.

Boats of all drafts can hit bottom. Owners of shallow draft boats may be worse off as they can be a bit more adventurous.

CS33 and CS36T are both great boats, and roomier than others you are looking at. For example the CS36T is over 2' wider than the Spencer 35 which can be a bit tight below. The Yamaha looks pretty good as well - I would not worry about the draft.

I would forget the Westerly. A center cockpit 32' without a passageway to the aft cabin is like a 26' boat inside.

36' is not hard to handle - the bow is just a bit farther away.
Hmm I thought from the pictures it had a passageway opposite the galley? Just that it also had a top hatch aft of the cockpit?
I guess my reservations come from 1) the CS owners forum where the reviews specifically mentioned it damaging the grid reinforcing inside the hull. 2) a couple of ads I saw with grounding damage being mentioned.
That led me to being cautious, as well as all the dire warnings about what happens to deep fin keeled boats who's owners go exploring.
What about the Alohas? They certainly got some nice reviews.
What about the Swift 33?

The Niagra 31 is tempting too, I know that it is not a shorter Niagra 35 exactly(the first sailboat I ever really wanted as a kid was a Niagra 35 called Star Kindred I used to see every day at the RVYC). Seems nicely laid out, and Faster likes it(good recommendation in my books )
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  #22  
Old 04-09-2012
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

Niagaras are good boats, as are Alohas. The Swift looks interesting but I do not know anything about them.

Any boat can be damaged by a good hit. The trick is not to.

The Westerly doesn't show a passageway - rare on a 32' boat. There are cockpit lockers on each side which would make it impossible on a boat that size unless it had a lot more freeboard. Visually it will seem small inside. Here's a link to the Westerly that shows the layout a lot better. Great boat for a couple who want the kids to be in their own cabin. You would probably only use it for storage. Westerly Renown ketch archive details - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales
Also the Westerly is only 2" wider than my CS27.
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  #23  
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

Damn. There goes that idea. I really did love the Ketch rig though. My dad is pretty focused on the shorter CS. He is very concerned that the 36T will be much harder to handle in every way, due to the extra length and weight.
I think the 36T, especially the specific one I'm interested in is much more suited to my purpose such as the extra length and weight would probably be an asset in rough weather at anchor, triple the tank capacity means fewer trips for fuel/water etc.
However he has experience with sailing larger boats and I do not.

Were most CS33s set up for singlehanding with lines run aft as well?
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

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Were most CS33s set up for singlehanding with lines run aft as well?
You do not need the lines run aft to singlehand. I actually prefer the halyard and reefing lines on the mast. Using an autopilot or by heaving to, reefing is much easier. The friction on a single-line reefing system is much higher.
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

Virtually no stock boats have the halyards and reefing lines led aft - it is something owners do themselves.
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

There will be minimal difference in the feel of the CS36 vs the 33.. both are beefy boats and while you may notice the extra weight it's easily adapted to. As a liveaboard if the price fits it's a no-brainer going for the 36 (as long as you've sorted out the moorage situation)

As Jack says, too, halyards and lines led aft (or not) should not be deal breakers.. it's not difficult to do if you really need it, but I agree that singlehanded, as long as you have some sort of self steering, having halyards and reef lines at the mast works well.
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

Whoops. Reading about too many boats. I realize that 1) you told me about it already(the lines aft thing) 2) The owner of the boat and I talked about it too.

Moorage is going to be on the hook I think, assuming I can bug Gio into sharing his tips and tricks(Owner of the Pegasus that is in False Creek right now). The 36T already has heavier duty ground tackle than he's using, I've been doing a lot of research into anchoring techniques, especially those used under storm conditions. I figure if I spend 90% of my time sitting at anchor, and 10% sailing, and considering how many boats get damaged or washed up at anchor I figure I should devote my resources to learn how to anchor so I don't lose whatever I end up with. I've got printed copies of Maine Sailors observations on mooring, an interesting PDF on anchoring in the Sea of Cortez during a hurricane and I'm digging around to see what else turns up.
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

Just to throw another wrench into everything, what about a freedom 32?
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=6944&url=
32k asking. Repowered(original Yanmar was 22, this one has the 27)
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgbrown View Post
Damn. There goes that idea. I really did love the Ketch rig though. My dad is pretty focused on the shorter CS. He is very concerned that the 36T will be much harder to handle in every way, due to the extra length and weight.
I think the 36T, especially the specific one I'm interested in is much more suited to my purpose such as the extra length and weight would probably be an asset in rough weather at anchor, triple the tank capacity means fewer trips for fuel/water etc.
However he has experience with sailing larger boats and I do not.

Were most CS33s set up for singlehanding with lines run aft as well?
Reading through this again it appears that you are contemplating living either on the hook or on a mooring. In which case the primary benefit of the small boat, the lower marina charges, disappears.

You and your dad are worrying to much about boat size. if you are reasonably fit and 6 ft then boat size is not that much of a problem when it comes to sailing. OK when the sails get above 400 sq ft then yes it is a problem but I would not dismiss larger boats. I lived for 7 years on a 38 footer and now am in my 3rd year on a 44 footer. Both of which I can and do single hand, managing to sail and anchor with no great anxieties. Could I manage on a smaller boat sure but I like the extra speed, the quieter motion and the ability to keep going when faced with the steep nasty seas of the Caribbean 2 step. Also I like the headroom the extra space available for a good size shower and not having to worry about weight when I think about keeping something.

Sure the smaller boat will cost less to maintain and a little less to heat but the benefits of space and if you go voyaging the extra speed and stability are considerable.
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  #30  
Old 04-15-2012
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Re: Trying another tack... Looking for the right boat near Vancouver, BC.

So far so good. Seen some great boats. Seen some questionable boats. Seen some boats.

Started off with a Saturna 33 offshore, nice boat, but the inside was a bit odd. Definitely lived in, but a pretty zany setup, like the lamp with 15' of wire wrapped around the post, rubber tarantulas on the ceiling, and the holes drilled in the trim all over for pencils. I had flashes of the Joker in Batman since they were all stored end up.

It became quickly apparent which boats would work for me, and which wouldn't.

next was a Nonsuch 26, tons of room for the size, but just didn't do it for me.
Up to Nanimo to look at a CS33 and I felt bad for the salesman, junk all over, he opened the cockpit up took a look, turned to us with a sad look. Decent boat overall, and I liked the layout, but it felt a little small inside for the price.
Right next door was one in great condition, way cheaper with self steering vane and obviously well cared for, a different dealer had it though. he didn't stay too long and went off to talk with the wharfinger.

Some pretty fail-laden boats, where the guy was ashing in the sink, and left his roaches sitting all over the edge, obvious liveaboards, with tires and junk all over asking 10k more than the spotless ones.
Some pretty fail-laden brokers too. Not a clue about their boats, or sales for that matter.

One notable exception was Larry Thompson with Bayview yachts in Ladysmith. Every boat he had was in beautiful shape, modern electronics, tons of upgrades, and great prices. His info packets were huge(not a single page), and he knew them inside and out. He took 2 hours to show us 3 boats, one was a beautiful Aloha 32 for a very reasonable price. He outlined anything he thought should be upgraded or replaced, with approximate costs to do so, even down to the level of a specific propane fitting on one boat that he felt was better replaced with a modern fitting.

I would absolutely recommend him to anyone looking for a boat in the area. My dad even agreed, and he's not usually a fan of salespeople at all. If nothing on my current short list pans out, I'm just going to tell him what I'm looking for, I know he'll come through if anyone will.


Right now my shortlist is down to 5 boats, all really solid candidates with good reasons for each. Not bad considering how broad my list was at the start.

CS36T: Solid in every way, functional well built and tons of space, good tankage,power etc. Good supply of spares.

custom steel 36' (pretty in an ugly industrial way, well built and sailed over from Europe.) Felt smaller on deck than the 36T.
Comes with moorage in a nice liveaboard slip.

mid 30s Custom wood restoration of a William Garden design. Beautiful, functional and in need of a little love, incredibly well built, but in need of some repairs.

CS33: Little brother of the 36, less tankage, but well put together, won't save anything in a marina though.
Aloha 32. Some savings over the 33 and 36 in both moorage and purchase price, nice layout, except for the complete lack of V berth.

Alberg 30. This was one of the biggest surprises, a lot roomier than I thought, it actually felt more livable than the Aloha 32, though not as prettily built inside. Very lived in, very easy to live in. Great upgrades inside and out and some really brilliant ideas from the owner. Full keel, skeg rudder. Tons of storage space, the biggest deck lockers I've ever seen, tiller steerage and easy to handle. I felt right at home in it. Owners lived at anchor right through the winter, said it was much more sea-kindly than the Benteneaux 36 he used to sail. More tank capacity than all except the 35 and 36' boats.


Now the biggest problem seems to be finding moorage, the compromise my dad and I have tentatively reached is that if I want his backing on anything more expensive than the Alberg that I need to find real moorage, either a buoy or a slip.

The 36T seems to be the best all around boat, which is what I'd expected, it was always at the top of my list. The others have some real benefits, and some real drawbacks.
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