Center Cockpit between 32-38'' - SailNet Community

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  #1  
Old 12-08-2003
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Center Cockpit between 32-38''''

I am in the planning stages for my 3rd sailboat. My first was a Tanzer 22'' swing keel, my current boat is a 1989 Hunter 28''. Each boat has helped identify what I want/need from my next vessel, for which I plan to live on in Flordia.
Center Cockpit sailbots seem like a good fit for me.
Here is what I am looking for:
32-38 crusier (non-offshore)
Wheel steering
Diesel
Draw under 5'' 6"
Roomy aft berth
Less than $85k US
Sloop or cutter

Any suggestions for models?

Thanks,
Matt Wolf
mwolf7@visteon.com
S/V Wu Wei - H28
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Old 12-08-2003
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Center Cockpit between 32-38''''

Am quite happy with my Cheoy Lee midshipman It is an oldie but goodie and has teak decks that need be addressed but otherwise is a wonderful boat. Passageway from aft cabin is low, but allows boat to have a lower profile. Not sure how many of these are around but worth a look. There are many Irwin 37-8''s around. They have great space below - maybe even better for liveaboard. In the one I looked at seriously there were significant problems with bowsprit, mast step and decks. This may have just been this one boat but a rigerous survey is called for.
YOu should be able to get these for significantly less than 85K. There are others but I have no experience with them.
todd
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Old 12-11-2003
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Center Cockpit between 32-38''''

Thanks Todd.
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Old 12-13-2003
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Center Cockpit between 32-38''''

I owned an S2 9.2C for six years and loved it. Not quite as big as you are looking for. However their is a 36'' version of same out there on the market and they are nice! Looked at one in Charleston a year or so ago before I went Cat to make my wife happy.
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Old 12-13-2003
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Center Cockpit between 32-38''''

Matt, I''d suggest that there''s a huge difference in the suitability of a center cockpit layout in smaller hulls vs. the same layout with a larger hull. In fact, I believe there are a lot of disadvantages in the c/c design (which has been debated at length here and may be available in archives)but if that''s the layout you want, then that''s what you should select. However, in smaller hulls that layout will push the height of the boat up significantly unless the boat is without a walk-thru, accentuating some of the inherent problems in sailing closer to the bow, higher up and with the crew experiencing even greater roll moment. The boat will have more windage and sail more poorly than the same hull & rig with an aft cockpit and lower profile due to its higher freeboard, which in turn will make it more awkward to board from the water. The CE will be higher, as well. And another common consequence of smaller c/c designs is that the builder believed the buyer wants ''room'' and sometimes gave the designer a brief that results in lots of beam, which will make the boat slower and less efficient to windward.

Altho'' they are very much from different eras (early 70''s vs. 90''s), do a little surfing so you can see the hull form, profile, sail plan and draft of a Hallberg Rassy 35 (an Enderlein design) and any of the French/American c/c 36 footers. The former has a superb offshore cockpit with hard dodger and tall coamings, sails amazingly well given her shallow draft and full keel, but offers little of the ''space'' sought after by folks shopping for c/c designs: no walk-thru, no ''center queen'', etc. Comparing with modern designs should instantly show you where the compromises had to be made in these later designs.

I also find it interesting that there is now a shift away from c/c designs in favor of aft cabin layouts, with/without deck salons...making me wonder if designing production boats is what fashion designers do when they make a career change. <g>

Jack
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Old 12-14-2003
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Center Cockpit between 32-38''''

As usual, I think that Jack has hit the nail on the head. It is pretty much imposible to design a center cockpit boat below 40-42 feet or so that does not represent a major compromise in sailing ability, storage capacity, and motion comfort. The reasons are pretty much as Jack has stated but to explain this further, when you design a big center cockpit boat the natural volume distribution of hull is such the midship cockpit is occurring aft of the maximum point of beam and that there is enough room to get accomodations in the ends. In a smaller boat, the physical dimensions required for an aft cabing, pushes the cockpit further forward relative to the length of the boat so that the cockpit now occupies the most prime real estate on the boat, the portion of the boat with the greatest depth of hull and the greatest beam. While this helps get useful passages in, it wipes out a large volume of otherwise useable space. Similarly, to get enough room the stern for a reasonable double berth and the normal acoutrements of an aft cabin, the volume of the stern of a boat under 40 or so feet gets increased dramatically in a way that is not beneficial to the boat''s sailing ability.

It is those sort of challenges that keep most designers away from designing small center cockpit boats, unless they are intended for coastal use or seen as motorsailors. While there have been a number of smaller mid-cockpit boats built over the years you would probably end up with a better sailing sailing boat with nicer, more usable accomodations if you would either accept an aft cockpit or else expand your size range to something over 40 feet.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Old 12-14-2003
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Center Cockpit between 32-38''''

Allow me to tag on one note to Jeff''s follow-up: There are now a number of used, affordable and smaller boats on the market that have managed to create vestigal aft cabins in their design while still offering excellent nav stations, a workable galley, opposing settees that provide additional seaberths AND comfy sitting for guests at dinner, plus a full forward cabin, including multiple hanging lockers and cabinets. And all in 32-34 feet. Yes, there''s some increase in overall freeboard, and no the aft cabins are not spacious in any sense other than the size of the berth...but they are a far more preferable alternative to a smaller (32-35'') center cockpit layout. Examples include the Moody 31, H-R 34 (and even 31! altho'' everything seems pinched IMO), and the Najad 33 series. And more...

Jack
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