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  #1  
Old 05-02-2012
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This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

I'm hoping to draw on member insights -- on my thoughts for a boat (all hull types considered). I made a list below of what I'd like the boat to be capable of, and would like two different recommendations (maybe the first for dreaming):

1) Theoretical - any boat, new or old, for any price.

2) Pragmatic - used, of reasonable cost, relatively available.

CAPABILITIES LIST
----------------------
Preference is for a boat as small as reasonable, fitting these capabilities:

Use: Coastal sailing / ocean-archipelago gunkholing (within approx. 10 miles of coast).

Excellent (capable) in light airs.
As fast as possible, when all other capabilities are met.
Can sail solo / short-handed.
Fun to sail (subjective “fun factor”).
Shallow draft capable and/or can anchor near small islands.
Secure anchoring: anchors can be released and stored efficiently.
Can be sailed via autopilot and/or vane.
Can get you home in 30m winds with gusts to 50m if caught out.

Boat will not be raced.
Boat will not be a liveaboard vessel.

Engine: outboard or inboard.
Steering: tiller or wheel (tiller preferred).

Galley optional (oven not necessary).
Space in cabin for portable 2-burner stovetop (if no galley).
Space on boat for propane bottle.
Manual water pump for sink is ok.

Can sleep 4 in a pinch (three with reasonable space inside).
Can have 4 people in the cockpit area.
Privacy for toilet: head/porta-potty in an enclosed space.
Can carry provisions for two for three days minimum; eight days maximum, optionally.
Has storage capacity for two for three days minimum; eight days maximum, optionally.

Electrical: LED interior lighting (can retrofit). Anchor/mast lights on all night when anchoring.
Capable of battery recharging when necessary

Fuel/water: capacity for three days minimum; eight days maximum, optionally – could be jerry-can storage.
-----------

I probably left out some items -- what boats do you think I might I zero in on?

Last edited by Daily Alice; 05-02-2012 at 11:00 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-02-2012
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Re: This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

Hey,

Before I / we can really make any meaningful suggestions, a realistic budget is required. It's hard to know what 'reasonable' cost means: is it $10,000USD, $25K, $50K, or something else?

Off the top of my head, some boats that might meet your needs are
C&C 30
J30
J105 if your budget is over $50K
S2 9.1
Tartan 30
Santana 30

Good luck,
Barry
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Old 05-02-2012
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Re: This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

List all the possible boats between 27 and 30 feet on a wall and throw a dart. You might be better served by doing your research and narrowing down your list by reading one of the recommended books on small boats. John Vigor (I believe) wrote one. Also, Sailing Big on a Small Sailboat by Cardwell. There are others.

Many items on your list are subjective. My "fun factor" is not the same as yours for example.

Many boats can be rigged for shorthanded sailing.

You list an outboard for possible power yet you want it to be capable of moving the boat in extremely high coastal winds (which would presumably mean heavy seas). I would re-think that.
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Old 05-02-2012
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Re: This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

Budget and condition are often the determining factor. Without knowing either it is difficult to give an answer as there are literally hundreds of boats that meet the stated needs.

But, I'll give a plug for the PSC/Nor'Star Flicka 20 if you truly want to go small and capable.
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Old 05-02-2012
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Re: This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

This sounds a lot like a Cat or Trimaran to me...

There are several examples on YW from 20K to 120K. Here are a few;
1989 Gemini 3000 Preformance Cat Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
1992 Endeavour Catamaran Endeavourcat 30 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991.../United-States
2006 Performance Cruising Telstar 28 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 05-02-2012
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Re: This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaltersmi View Post
Budget and condition are often the determining factor. Without knowing either it is difficult to give an answer as there are literally hundreds of boats that meet the stated needs.

But, I'll give a plug for the PSC/Nor'Star Flicka 20 if you truly want to go small and capable.
Bit of a stretch as the OP's looking for excellent light air performance.

Sounds like he/she's looking for something much lighter. If you were on the west coast and on a tight'ish budget, I'd say look for a Santa Cruz 27. Great bang for the buck and will do everything you want in a small fun package.

More $$$, an alerion 28, but it's not going to sleep 4. Alerion Yachts - The Way Sailing Should Be - Alerion Express 28

$$$ to burn for a new one, maybe this:

http://www.jboats.com/pdf/j95brch.pdf

I'm sure there will be local support for jboats in Japan as well... if I recall correctly.


If you're in Kyushu, make sure you've got moorage or storage sorted out. Don't know how expensive it is these days, but it used to be pretty prohibitive.

Last edited by puddinlegs; 05-02-2012 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 05-02-2012
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Re: This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the replies! Yes, my "capabilities" seem general, but I wrote

"excellent in light airs"

I realize this is a bit vague, I will specify in more detail, below. When you add in all that's on the capabilities list, I was wondering if something like an F-27/28 (Corsair/Farrier) trimaran was where I was headed -- or something more like a J-boat (I have not sailed such a tri; have sailed a J-40). Puddinlegs, you are going in the direction I was thinking of, myself, with J-boats. Didn't yet consider the Santa Cruz or Alerion. Keep em coming!

More details: I helm a Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 (am not the owner). It's not great light in light airs - say at 3-6.5 meters/sec (6-15 mph). I want to be able to get somewhere in light airs, and not resort to the engine so much in these conditions. I think most of the monohulls mentioned would not do better in light airs than the Jeanneau, except for J-boats, S2, Alerion? I think most of the "cruising" type monohulls will not be so effective in light airs. And, I was wondering whether my capabilities list could be met in any monohull less than 30 feet?

As for cats and tris, forgot to mention, the boat needs to fit into a standard width marina slip. Pretty sure a 30' cat would have trouble with tight pontoon slips here, and marinas like to charge double for the width. Also lift outs become problematic. Interesting idea though.

Ahhh, budget. I didn't want to limit brainstorming to a number. I could have said "bang for the buck". For purchase, let's say under $50K -- there's a number. There are sometimes boats that come up in Tokyo where the owner really wants or needs to get rid of it. The market is really soft these days, and sometimes there are great deals to be had with boats that haven't been sailed in some years, but just need some new gear.

In monohulls, I was wondering whether any older racing designs could serve. I can do some interior carpentry (though not looking for a massive DIY project). Also, in a monohull, should I be looking for more of a racing sailplan? Should I stay away from purpose-built cruisers? These are the kind of questions I have in my mind.

For me, light air effectiveness combined with storage ability and accommodations does limit options quite a lot. I have several marina/yacht club slip options where I live. Being away from the major cities, fees are quite reasonable.

Your continued thoughts, please!

Last edited by Daily Alice; 05-02-2012 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 05-02-2012
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Re: This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

Offshore? Inboard, not outboard.

Fast in light air but also shoal draft? Light displacement CENTERBOARD boat, not a keel boat.
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Old 05-02-2012
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Re: This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

Beneteau first 30, or the others int he 28 to 32' range.

Jeanneau's Sun Fast versions of the SO series. You will find the SF37 is rated some 20'is secs a mile faster than an SO37, THE SF35 is faster yet, The SF32 is about on par with an SF37. While the SO/SF37 was one of Jeanneau's biggest number build boats, it was not the fastest. You might even find a Jeanneau 1d35 around that is on par speed wise with a J105/109. The 1d35 is not equal to a 1d35 that is a IIRC a Farr design. The jeanneau will have a sorta kinda interior, where as the Farr is on par with a meleges 32/mumm 30 interior, ie very minimal.

Reality is, any finish keel boat will work. If you sail in light winds a lot, like pudding and I do here in puget sound, a light cloth drifter/reacher will help ALOT in under 5-7 knots of wind.

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Old 05-02-2012
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Re: This Capable Boat: Recommendations?

Thanks -- seems that selection is limited with a centerboard boat, but it is the right way to go. the J/95 fits my "theoretical" choice really well. Pragmatically, it's not a boat I can afford though.

On the engine issue, inboard for a monohull, though James Baldwin's point that sometimes an outboard can be fitted and saves weight and space on a smaller boat, is useful to consider. Possible with the right design? An outboard would be required with a trimaran. I would not eliminate a trimaran from consideration. Though storage is an issue. Fast though, and stable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Offshore? Inboard, not outboard. Fast in light air but also shoal draft? Light displacement CENTERBOARD boat, not a keel boat.
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