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Old 05-18-2012
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Need advice on cost of ownership and upkeep

Hey guys. Iím looking into buying my first real boat and Iím trying to figure out what I can expect to pay for annual upkeep etc. Iím looking at a few different boats, but theyíre all about 22í, from the 70ís or 80ís, and cost around $3000. They also all trailer sailord I want to understand what kind of maintenance costs I should be prepared for. Iíve already figured out storage (800 for summer, 250 for winter) and insurance (liability only), but other than that I donít really know what to expect in terms of expenses. Any advice would be appreciated.

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Old 05-18-2012
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Need advice on cost of ownership and upkeep

B ring
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Old 05-18-2012
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Re: Need advice on cost of ownership and upkeep

Depends largely on the condition of the boat and where you will be sailing (fresh vs. salt). Salt water tends to degrade things more quickly. Maintenance costs also depend on whether you can do most repairs yourself.

I used to have a 22 footer and I re-rigged it myself, painted the hull and deck and did minor fiberglass repairs. Big things like glassing over the head's thru-hull I had a marina do so that was a couple hundred.

If the boat is from the 70s, unless a PO already did it, you'll have to address the waste going overboard. My solution was to pull the head and keep a porta potty. The other option is to install a holding tank and secure the valve so that it can't be moved from that position. Just something to look for in an older boat.
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Old 05-18-2012
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Re: Need advice on cost of ownership and upkeep

How much will it cost?
Well, how much spare cash have you got?
Seriously, that is what it costs. What you don't spend on upkeep you will spend on upgrades, or repairs because you didn't spend enough on upkeep and blew too much on upgrades.
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Old 05-18-2012
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Re: Need advice on cost of ownership and upkeep

I been owning my Oday 22 for 2 years now. Biggest expense for me is the slip fee which is $225 a quarter or $75 a month. If you keep it on a trailer you won't have this expense. Other then this, you will spend money on outboard motor maintenance, maybe $200-$300 a year if you shop it. Then you will want to have a bottom wash annually which can be just over $200. Then other things such as rigging and sails. Much of your money will go to cleaning supplies and other small stuff here and there and it does add up. It's not so much maintenance for me, it's all the things I am buying for my boat that adds up! Examples are power inverter, stain, varnish, dock lines, rigging parts, tools, motor parts, just always seems like there is something I am needing. Right now on my to buy list is a new mainsail cover, roller furler, depth sounder, marine grill, better VHF and also a better GPS and stereo system. Then you also have to have time to do maintanence things. This can be difficult sometimes but is a must to learn how to work on your boat and motor yourself. If you continually shop it for things, you will end up spending a lot of money. I had learned this quick! So I made mine own companionway hatches, tiller handle and storage covers rather then buy online or pay someone else.

If I had to some it all up, roughly I would say you will spend about $1000-$2000 a year on maintenance for a 22ft (cleaning, rigging, sails, etc) and it's motor. Give or take about $200. It all depends on if you take care of things yourself or shop it. This does not include slip or storage fees if you plan on that nor does it include any wants you may have such as the things I mention on my to buy list. So it can get expensive off and on but it's fun and I have found out it is well worth it. At least a sailboat is inexpensive to operate although more maintenance (small cruisers or yachts) then a powerboat.

In the end just say you offer them just under $3000, the first year you will want to buy all kinds of things, "boat toys" and it adds up. I now have pictures with gold frames hanging in mine. Hardly maintenance but I had to have them just like hundred of dollars of other things. Me in a boat store is like a women in a shoe store Probably a good thing my boat is only so big, if I had bigger I would have more room to put a bunch of things I will buy. So the $3000 boat may cost you more like $5000+ the first year easy
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Re: Need advice on cost of ownership and upkeep

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRFerron View Post
Depends largely on the condition of the boat and where you will be sailing (fresh vs. salt). Salt water tends to degrade things more quickly. Maintenance costs also depend on whether you can do most repairs yourself.

I used to have a 22 footer and I re-rigged it myself, painted the hull and deck and did minor fiberglass repairs. Big things like glassing over the head's thru-hull I had a marina do so that was a couple hundred.

If the boat is from the 70s, unless a PO already did it, you'll have to address the waste going overboard. My solution was to pull the head and keep a porta potty. The other option is to install a holding tank and secure the valve so that it can't be moved from that position. Just something to look for in an older boat.
It will be sailed in fresh water and I do plan to do most of the maintenance myself. Ill probably just go with a porta potty and get rid of the head.
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Old 05-19-2012
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Re: Need advice on cost of ownership and upkeep

For a 22 foot boat, that will be put on a trailer, your maintenance costs are a small fraction of what they would be for the same boat kept at a marina.
Think of two things. First...no haul out costs and no bottom paint. There is your first plus.
The second is driving time. If you keep your boat close to the house, just think what your time is worth in dollar terms what you save in driving to do boat work. I figure my time at about 200 an hour, because that is my billing rate for my job.
Everybody here is right, a boat is a constant project, but with a boat you can pull out yourself, take home, a good solid half of the expense is removed due to drive time, no salt spray rotting stuff.
If the waters you sail in don't call for a big boat, I can't see any reason for one. I myself started with a 33 footer, downgraded to a 27 footer, and have recently downgraded to a 22 footer simply for the lack of worry about upkeep.
The bigger the boat, the bigger the worry. I put worry about 900 an hour.
But really, if you get a trailer boat, haul it out and just put elbow grease into it, actual maintenance is more or less zero, after storage, and the big thing like new sails, outboard work, etc.

Last edited by benajah; 05-19-2012 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 05-20-2012
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Re: Need advice on cost of ownership and upkeep

All have given you good and accurate advise; one thing I'll add is this from my personal experience:

I recently bought a 22 Ft sailboat on a trailer thinking that I was going to keep it in the driveway and tow it the 14 miles to the lake every weekend. I did it once, we raised the mast and I immediately realized I did not want to do that every time I go sailing, we ended up getting a slip at the marina.

I don't care how much you'll read online about how it only takes 15 min to raise the mast, might be, but towing there, paying the ramp fee, waiting for people at the ramp; getting the mast up is a tenth of the work, then there's trimming the mast, all the running rigging and the other thousand things you have to get ready. Trust me, it takes about one hour at the ramp before you actually go sailing. And do it all over again backwards at the end of the day.
If you are willing to do that one, might be twice a week then you'll save a ton of money in marinas, but it gets old pretty quick, at least for me it did.

My 2 cents...
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Last edited by sevseasail; 05-20-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 05-20-2012
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Re: Need advice on cost of ownership and upkeep

I don't own a boat, so take this with a grain of salt. For the research I've been doing on the purpose of buying a boat in the 35-45 ft range, there is confusing words in what people say and what they mean in these boards/forums. Let me explain. I've gotten quotes for insurance in that range on 3 different production brands (Catalina, beneteau, and jeanneau) of similar ages (>2004) and they all came within $10-15/month of each other. Slip costs is based on footage, so 10 feet difference at most monthly is roughly $50/month. Bottom scrapping is also based on footage, so about $10/month in the extremes. The biggest difference will be in initial cost, but surprisingly, stye are fairly close too. So, a lot of what you hear in terms of maintenance is actually upgrades and replacement of things that are actually broken to begin with. Those I don't call them maintenance, but rather upgrades and initial cost. What I call maintenance is stuff that continually breaks down or needs replacing: engine oil changes, lines wearing, rigging changes due to age, wood banishing, broken or crazed to death hatch covers, etc. Semantics I guess, but when people tell me I will spend 10% of the boat cost yearly, I had to ask what the hell kind of a POS they thought I was buying that I would need to spend $14-18K yearly in "maintenance".

Obviously, age of the boat makes a huge difference. I recently spoke with a guy that had a 2004 boat of the same make I was looking for and he tells me he has own it since 2006 (2nd owner). Other than oil changes and some banishing, he has replaced a valve in a head. That is all. Boat looked better than coming out of the factory!!!!
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Old 05-21-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevseasail View Post
All have given you good and accurate advise; one thing I'll add is this from my personal experience:

I recently bought a 22 Ft sailboat on a trailer thinking that I was going to keep it in the driveway and tow it the 14 miles to the lake every weekend. I did it once, we raised the mast and I immediately realized I did not want to do that every time I go sailing, we ended up getting a slip at the marina.

I don't care how much you'll read online about how it only takes 15 min to raise the mast, might be, but towing there, paying the ramp fee, waiting for people at the ramp; getting the mast up is a tenth of the work, then there's trimming the mast, all the running rigging and the other thousand things you have to get ready. Trust me, it takes about one hour at the ramp before you actually go sailing. And do it all over again backwards at the end of the day.
If you are willing to do that one, might be twice a week then you'll save a ton of money in marinas, but it gets old pretty quick, at least for me it did.

My 2 cents...
When I got sick of my bigger boat I was determined to get a trailer boat so I could do work in the convenience of my yard, avoid slip fees and the wear from sitting on salt water. Was just about to pull the trigger on a Catalina 22 when a friend and I took his trailer sailer out.
Took us a solid two hours from pulling into the lot at the lake until we were under sail after all that stuff, and coming back took about as much time too.
Four hours of being at the ramp for about 3 hours of sailing irritated me.
I changed my mind and got a still very small boat but one that stays in a slip and has a solid keel.
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