JeffH or others - comments on these boats please

[gulls]

Hello there,
the following is a list of some of the boats I am considering.
The purpose is as follows:
For a few years, sailing Lake Lanier, Atlanta. Then move the boat to the NE Florida coast or perhaps the Gulf Coast for some coastal cruising.

Draft up to 5 feet

Budget:under $30k ($25k much preferred)

Condition will decide if there are several I like - ie. will have about $4k for initial fix-up, so no major project boats.
Size: 28 - 32 feet - to allow comfortable accommodations for several days aboard at a time.

No athwartships head behind V-berth!!!

What do you think of these:

Tartan 3000 (prefer to Tartan 30 for cruising)

Ericson 30+

Moody 31 (Love this one)

Cal 28 (not too sure about this one)

Watkins 30 (Is this one too sluggish for my plans??)

Any others?

Thanks for your help.

[Fishboat]

gull,
I too am interested in the Cal 28-2. I look forward to comments on this boat as well as the others you mention. In this size range the Beneteau First 285 may also be worth a look. It has an interior that is very close to the Cal 28-2, but appears (by it''s numbers) to be higher in performance...though their PHRF ratings are Ben 196 & Cal 180. The beam of the 28-2 at 10.7 feet is high and has positives & negatives. FWIW, I''ve contacted 6-8 Cal 28-2 owners on the Great Lakes & East Coast and every one of them give the boat an enthusiastic thumbs up.

[gulls]

Well Fishboat, doesn/t look like there''s much interest in this thread, even JeffH didn''t respond, was it something I said???
I looked at the Bene First 285 on Yachtworld, certainly looks nice. The only thin that concerns me about both the Cal 28-2 and the Bene is the light weight and relatively low displacement - great for the lake, but how would they handle coastal cruising. Also the are several comments on the net about the shallow bilges on these boats, not necessarily dangerous, but more of a hassle if you get water in them. (Comes over the cabin floor easily).

So does anyone have any other thoughts?
Fishboat, have you found out any more / made a choice?

Regards, Gulls

[RichardElliott]

Take a hard look at the Robert Perry designed Islander 28. Beamy, but a great sailor.

[dgeorgia]

The tartan 3000 and Ericson 30+ will be faster and more fun to sail than either the moody 31 and watkins 30 (I really don''t like the watkins boats at all) the cal 28 is a nice boat but it will feel much smaller than the others. I have owned an ericson 30+ for 6+ years and really love the boat, I use it for daysailing, phrf racing (phrf 168 base, 186 for shoal draft w/fixed prop), and weekending on the chesapeake. The boat is very well built, with oversized rigging, quality hardware, and very solid decks. The tall double spreader fractional rig gives the boat a good turn of speed, especially on a downwind run or on a reach (I regularly pass/pull away from well sailed catalina 30''s and pearson 30''s), sailing upwind the boat is fast, you just have to remember that the boat is a shoal keel, not a deep draft racer and should be sailed accordingly, which is the same for any shoal draft boat. Mine is for sale, send me an email if you are interested, or just have more questions.

[Fishboat]

gulls,

geez, I thought it may be something I said... :-)

Though the Ben 285 does seem a bit light for coastal cruising, I suspect some may feel it being light is more an advantage than a disadvantage. As for the Cal 28-2, it has a D/L ratio of 256 which puts it solidly in the middle-weight category...or ''heavy'' depending on your viewpoint.

From what I''ve gathered the Cal boats have a pretty good reputation. The earlier series were pre ~1984 (25, 27, 28-1, 29, 33, & 40..) and were (mostly?) made in California. The 33 & particularly the 40 have a good following yet today. I think all(?) of these early models were Bill Lapworth designs. Cal Yachts Inc was sold to Bangor-Punta Marine in the 70''s sometime & I''ve read they moved some or all the production to Florida & Massachusetts. B-P built O''Day sailboats & this was run by Jim Hunt...C. Raymond Hunt''s son. There was also a very short lived Cal-Pearson venture, but I think this died before it got off the ground. To my knowledge the Cals were all solid glass hulls. The 40 has solid glass decks, the 25 & 2-27 has a plywood cored deck, I''m not sure what kind of deck the 28-2 has though I''d guess plywood cored.

The Cal 28-2 (~1985-1989) was designed by a guy who worked for C. Raymond Hunt & Assoc. I''ve done as much digging as I''ve been able to on the Cal 28-2. While it is beamy to say the least it still seems to be a good sailor. As I mentioned I''ve contacted 6-8 current & past owners of the 28-2 and they''ve all said it is(was) an excellent 28-footer. I recently received an email (12/18) from a couple that is currently sailing a 28-2 from NY to the Carribean. Harm said..."..I love the Cal 28. Very easy to single hand. Great room below. Sails terrific, upwind, downwind, even pretty fast.. easily over 6knts in winds around ten. We tend to start reefing the main in around 15 or 20 knots, but we drive her pretty hard at times." Their 1-2 year voyage is documented at http://www.traveloutward.com/logs/bumbre/index.shtml This couple would say the 28-2 can indeed coastal cruise as they''ve been doing it for the last 7 months.

The 28-2''s large beam would suggest poor upwind performance & questionable stability in a 180 degree roll-over (I calculated the AVS at 124 degrees...pretty reasonable). While stability is always important, I think coastal cruising is a little less demanding than true offshore work as you can pick your days or run for cover. No one has mentioned the upwind performance as being an annoying issue.

Here''s a Roger Marshall review of a 28-2. Like most boat reviews, it''s meant to sell boats, but there is some info here: http://www.boats.com/content/default_detail.jsp?contentid=10177

Once the weather up north breaks I''ll look over one 28-2 I''ve located. If it checks out then comes a surveyor...time will tell...

I''m not that familiar with the other boats you''ve mentioned. The Moody seems to stick out as being in a different class than the others...with a price to match.


Richard,
thanks for the tip on the Islander 28...nice looking boat & as you say definitely worth a look. I wasn''t aware of this one.

(gulls...here''s a link to take a look....the links at the very bottom of the page have a wealth of info on Islanders: http://www.courselinepc.com/islander/history.html)

[Fishboat]

gulls,

FWIW, this data is available in various places, though not particularly these models all in the same place.

I haven''t tried posting images or graphics here, but we''ll give it a shot:

<img src=http://users.wi.net/~datuboat/images/compare.htm>

[Fishboat]

Since that didn''t work we''ll try this:

http://users.wi.net/~datuboat/images/compare.htm

[gulls]

Thanks to everyone for the replies and the links, I''ll be following up on them.
I think I''ll also start another thread about how to analyse the numbers of boats to determine their suitability fot the type of sailing to be done.

Still no word from JeffH - sniff, sniff - it doesn''t seem that I smell too bad - whats up???

[Jeff_H]

I am sorry, I thought that I had responded to this question earlier. I have been traveling and woking a lot lately and so have had less internet time. A quick run through of the boat in question.

Beneteau First 305:
I really like these boats. They had a really nice layout and offer very good sailing abilities. They are one of the better sailing and better built boats on this list. This would probably be my first choice given your criteria.

Beneteau First 285:
These are cool little boats. I think they offer a lot of accomodations and sailing ability for the dollar. I would suggest that you check the berth dimensions.

Cal 28:
I like this late model Cal in many ways. I don''t especially like some of the construction details. They are good all around boats.

Ericson 30+:
I have mixed feelings about these. I really like the rig proportions but do not like the hull design that much. Build quality varied from boat to boat during this period of Ericson''s history.

Ericson 32:
You can find these 1980''s era boats in your general price range. They sail well and the PS versions were very well constructed.

Goman Express 30AKA Express Yachting 30)
I really like these boats. They offer excellent sailing ability and very good build quality. These would be my first choice for myself for your area but are slightly deeper than you consider ideal and have the head forward so would not be as high on your list. (Should not be mistaken for the stripped out 30 M.) I prefer a tiller version but there is a wheel version near you.

J-28:
Very nice little cruiser. Great boats.

Laser 28:
I owned one of these for just under 14 years and I really loved this Bruce Farr designed boat. Great performance in almost all wind ranges but requires more skill to sail than most of these boats. Very high quality construction using Kevlar and vinylester.

Moody 31: I don''t recall these boats.

Pearson 303:
Very good cruising boat but lackluster performance. A better choice than the Watkins.

Pearson 32/31:
These IOR typeform boats offer a nice build quality combined with good sailing traits. (They are a little tender.) The 31 and 32 were the same hull but the 31 had a fractional rig.

Sabre 28:
Nicely built and decent sailing boats.

Tartan 3000:
Nice boats in many ways. I don''t have a lot of direct exposure to this model.

Tartan 30:
This is one of my favorite boats of this size and of its era. They were pretty well constructed and sailed quite well.

Watkins 30:
There is nothing that I like about these boats.

Jeff