C&C or Catalina - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-12-2004
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
MarsMachine is on a distinguished road
C&C or Catalina

I am going to buy a new Boat to cruise the NE coast of USA sometime between Sail Expo and early March.

I have been impressed by what I have read about the Catalina 350. It seems like it is a lot of boat for the dollar. They are on hull #230(ish) and the boat was just introduced in 2002.

Now.. I love the look and style of the C&C 110. It is about 25K more than the Catalina. It seems like is just an awsome vessel in so many respects in terms of construction, design and speed.
I am looking for input here although I know that I will end up going with the boat that "grabs" me after it is all said and done.

Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 01-13-2004
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,684
Thanks: 5
Thanked 105 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
C&C or Catalina

These boats are so far apart on the sailing spectrum that I guess I would have to ask,
"How do you plan to use this boat?" and
"How much do you know about sailing?"

The C&C is about as well built a production boat as there is out there right now. It is also a very high performance boat. It is set up so that with a proper sail inventory these boats could sail safely in any conditions that the boat may encounter. These are pretty serious boats. Like most boats designed to sail well, the C&C has comparatively small accomodations for its length but big accomodations for its displacement. They are also quite deep.

The Catalina 350 is designed to do two things be cheap and offer a lot of room. All else is secondary. For marina hopping on Long Island Sound they are Okay. For making a jump out and around Cape Ann beating in a blow, they are not a very good choice.

I would also suggest that you look at the Beneteau First 36.7. These boats offer the sailing ability of the C&C nut with much better ventilation, should be easier to handle by a couple than either boat, offer a better build quality than the Catalina and are closer to the price of the Catalina than the C&C.

Respectfully,
Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 01-13-2004
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 94
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 14
doubleplay is on a distinguished road
C&C or Catalina

To start with C&C 110 is not 25K but close to 50K more expensive than Catalina 350 given the fact that they are both new and similarly equipped.
Jeff already explained the differences between the two boats but if you are looking for a performance cruiser you can not go wrong with brands like C&C,Beneteau First series,Dehler,etc...
Good Luck
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 01-13-2004
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Debonair is on a distinguished road
C&C or Catalina

Not even a close call, the Tartan 3500 or C&C 110 are the best! Full disclosure I bought a new Tartan 3500 last fall from LI yachts after looking at other production boats. worth every extra penny. The epoxy hull,15 year warranty,great speed and looks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 01-13-2004
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Sailor-man is on a distinguished road
C&C or Catalina

As noted these are very different boats ...with different purposes in mind. If you''re interested in a Performance Cruiser, in addition to the Beneteau First, check out the new Dufour Performance Series. Take a look at the Dufour 34. Unlike the Ben First 36.7, is available in a 2 cabin layout ... Closer to the Catalina 350 pricepoint, but comes with vacume bagged hull, 10 year blister warranty, and injected deck. It''s getting some rave reviews in Europe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 01-17-2004
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 36
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
tjr3c is on a distinguished road
C&C or Catalina

The statements made by Jeff H are obviously self serving regarding Catalina Yachts. Unless he is the designer, he has no basis other than personal opinion, to make the following statement:

"The Catalina 350 is designed to do two things be cheap and offer a lot of room. All else is secondary. For marina hopping on Long Island Sound they are Okay. For making a jump out and around Cape Ann beating in a blow, they are not a very good choice."

It is a simple fact the the International Association of Yacht Builders has designated the Catalina 350 as CE- A - Ocean Rated. Benateau has removed it''s "Oceanis" designation from many of its yachts in the same size range. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 01-17-2004
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,120
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 13
WHOOSH is on a distinguished road
C&C or Catalina

TJR and the group:

Catalina''s 350 - and every other U.S built boat sold in the U.S. - is not CE rated. CE ratings relate to a Recreational Craft Directive developed by a body commissioned in turn by the European Union, are awarded to a builder (usually for 2 year period) by a Notified Body that the builder hires, and the rating is awarded without a single boat being ''surveyed''. (An interesting tidbit from the recent London Boat Show is that Bavaria formed a firm of its own, had it accredited as a Notified Body, and that''s who awards Bavaria''s CE ratings. Given the competitive nature of boat building here - high volume, large employers, highly automated and with an emphasis on building to a price - this was probably inevitable). U.S.-built boats that are CE Rated in Europe may in fact be similar or identical here in the States, but the critical issue is not the rating but rather the process by which the rating is applied. No regulatory entity here has endorsed the process nor suggested it produces boats with the capaibilities claimed.

As best I can make out, the CE Rating Scheme is driven by the intention for EU products to be similarly capable (for a given rating), to insure a similar competitive environment within the EU for manufacturers from all member countries, and to place a compliance hurdle for all non-EU built boats, so that they too must compete comparably. As with much else about the EU''s current political form - and somewhat in line with the cultural nature of Europe generally, IMO - the emphasis is more on bureaucracy, paperflow and protectionism, and less about building boats that truly are, as the RCD states for ''A'' rated boats, capable of Force 8 PLUS winds and 4 Meter PLUS seas (my caps).

This suggests almost unlimited stability and structural capability (one of my main gripes about how the ''A'' rating is represented), when in reality a look at some (most) of the boats would suggest a more reserved view of their abilities.

To get a feel for the RCD, spend a little time reading the content at http://europa.eu.int/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexapi!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=en&n umdoc=31994L0025&model=guichett. You''ll find much comment on the paperwork process, and you''ll find comfortable generalisms about boats being suitable for their intended purpose, being built in ways to help people from falling overboard, having thru-hulls that close, etc. but you will find little in this RCD overview (this is only a summary of sorts) that suggests a true understanding of sailing offshore.

To go back to the original post, it''s interesting to me that the Catalina 350 has received so much attention here - the archives probably offer a wealth of editorial comment on it. During the periods I''ve been able to read posts here, I''ve yet to read about one 350 being sailed out of one coastal port, at least over night, Before arriving at another port. (Or obviously, an account of the boat being taken offshore). The positive comments about the boat''s performance underway all seem related to the boat being used in protected waters, which leaves me wondering how certain owners can be of its ultimate sailing and sail handling ability, about how well it suits a crew who must sleep, cook and navigate at sea, or about its structural capabilities. I don''t see this as a criticism of the boat...but it does give me a perspective on its positive reception by the recreational sailor and helps to account for its successful sales record. I suspect those accounts do exist and it would be refreshing to hear a few cruise accounts from owners who have sailed their 350 outside the breakwater for a few hundred non-stop miles.

I don''t think I''ve seen anyone claim Frank Butler and Catalina didn''t know how to build a boat to a market.

Jack
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 01-18-2004
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,684
Thanks: 5
Thanked 105 Times in 81 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
C&C or Catalina

I have been criticized for a lot of things in life but being "self-serving" isn''t one of them. I can''t see at all how my comments on the Catalina 250 serve me one little bit. I have nothing to gain or lose by providing as accurate an opinion as I can. In forming my opinion, I don''t have to design the boat or work for Catalina, I just have to read and listen to what Catalina wants to tell me about the boat.

The position that I presented came straight from the horse''s mouth, Catalina. If you go to the Catalina website and look at how they chose to describe the boat it is solely about accomodations and features:
http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=48

There is no mention anywhere in their description of the boat''s sailing ability or seaworthiness.

As to how I came to the price part, that is how Catalina sales folks were apparently instructed to describe the 350 at the last Annapolis Boat Show/ At the last Annapolis Boat Show I looked at the 350. There was a Salesman on the dock and I mentioned that Catalina appeared to be building three nearly identical sized boats (34 II, 350, 36 II) and then I asked him what was significant about the 350. He told me great price first and then about the sheer amount of room that was on the 350. I asked about the seakeeping of the boat, and was told to talk to the person who was down below since he was "involved" with 350''s and knew them well.

So I waited my turn and went below and asked the same question about what is significant about the 350 he started out by commenting on the 350''s great price and then explained that the 350 offers the best accomodations for the dollar. So I asked how does she sail. And he talked about how comfortable the cockpit was and the halyards lead back to the cockpit and price again. So I asked about the boat''s seakeeping ability, here he gave me an explaination of how all boats are a compromise but for the amount of room down below, the 350 sails pretty well. Both the salesmen and the Catalina literature talk in great detail about price and all kinds of other items(engine, type of varnish, wood veneers being used, etc) but not a word about seaworthiness or sailing ability.

When I came off the boat, the first salesman asked how I liked the boat. We talked for a while. Then I commented to him that I thought that it was interesting that he said almost the same things that the salesman down below had said he explained that he was not familiar with the 350 before the show and so had been briefed to focus on the price and accommodations.

Now, I much admit that the part about being designed for marina hopping was my own conclusion. I drew this conclusion by layout down below which featured a lack footing , a lack of seaberths and a Vee berth that has been compromised as a ''pedestal queen'' vee with its head forward and no restraints to keep you in that bunk under way, galley space given over to a microwave, and so on that promotes comfort at the dock but not underway.

I also came to my own conclusion about beating into the short chop around Cape Ann looking at the hull form of the boat. Its high freeboard, blunt bow angle, large beam,and high wetted surface are less than desirable features for beating into a steep headsea.

As to your comments about the CE certifications, virtually all Hunters, Beneteaus and Catalina over 30-32 feet have achieved a Class A CE certification. As Jack has been researching and discovering that has little to do with whether the boats are actually intended for offshore use. Also with regards to Beneteau, Beneteau has produced a number of lines of boats over the years. They still produce the Oceanis Serises but the latest cruiser line is thier ''number'' series. That said, I don''t see what bearing that has on Catalinas.

Respectfully,
Jeff
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 01-19-2004
paulk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,555
Thanks: 4
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 15
paulk is on a distinguished road
C&C or Catalina

I''d agree with Jeff, and opt for taking the C&C (and maybe even a Beneteau) around Cape Ann, Cape Cod, Cape May, Cape Henlopen, and on down to Cape Canaveral. It sounds like the Catalina would be really comfy (and roomy) for the ICW. It depends what you want to do, and how you want to do it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 01-19-2004
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 36
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
tjr3c is on a distinguished road
C&C or Catalina

Just four days ago, I attended the AC Sail Expo and stood next to a cut -away hull display at Catalina''s display area.. It clearly and plainly stated that the Catalinas (above 30'') were CE - A rated for open ocean cruising at Force ? wind and wave conditions. I repeat - CE-A means that a boat is rated for "Open Ocean Cruising". I attended the same show last year and was disappointed that the Hunters in the low 30'' category were rated only CE-B. I maintain that the original statement by Jeff is pure opinion and not based on the design ratings. Contrary to what has been posted here by others, all boats are not CE-A rated. That rating has to be achieved by design, construction, materials, and testing. The following statement is not accurate based on the current advertising and ratings put out by Catalina Yachts..

"The Catalina 350 is designed to do two things be cheap and offer a lot of room. All else is secondary. For marina hopping on Long Island Sound they are Okay. For making a jump out and around Cape Ann beating in a blow, they are not a very good choice."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
catalina 30 new sails jhabaa1 Gear & Maintenance 2 02-15-2004 01:06 PM
Catalina 310 greatwhiteway Boat Review and Purchase Forum 10 07-02-2002 07:42 AM
Catalina 27 or 30 xavier6162 Racing 1 03-01-2002 05:24 PM
PHRF club racing a Catalina 27? Nawlinsguy Racing 2 12-09-2001 11:40 AM
A new catalina 36? paul-e Boat Review and Purchase Forum 32 09-21-2001 06:26 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:05 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.