need help ASAP

[tybeefolk]

i guess being new to this bb has caused me to either ask the wrong questions in the wrong places or ya''ll just don''t like smokers. on more than one ocassion i''ve followed some craft w/sails out of ports that the EPA should have been notified about. 8^). so we''ve unloaded the HOG and are currently looking for the ideal boat; for two to sail comfortably anywhere we may want to go, without a great deal of maintaince requirements, feeling as safe as we do on the Viking. we are sizing way down to something easily managed by 2 (no more crews and attitudes); with enough comforts that a long cruise would be enjoyable, and if we decided to stay out there for a long time (live aboard) would gracefully age, appreciate in value and make a nice home. we feel we need at least 37 feet as a base boat to use and learn aboard. thanks to all of you more experienced cruisers that can and will share your experiences and knowledge.

[Stede]

tybeefolk,

I missed part of your previous questions, but I''ll try to answer this one as I understand it.I''ve owned a 19ft.boat,and presently have a 26 ft.boat.I''ve sailed numerous boats up to 45ft.Of all of them, I like the feel of 37'' to 38'' boats the best.I look to cruise full time one day, and prior to doing so,that is the size of boat I''ll look for.My favorite boat is a Wauquiez 38.My friend John Drake that visits this board from time to time has one.The boat has everything that I desire in a solid,fast cruiser.You might e-mail John for some specifics,or research the boat here on the web if you''re interested in finding out more.Unfortunately,the boat is out of my price range right now. But,in the future,who knows :^) If you have other questions that aren''t being addressed here,feel free to e-mail me and I''ll try to help.

[kokopelli9]

tybeefolk,

I have sailed on boats from 14'' to 47''...I now have a 23''monohull. I am very comfortable singlehanding it and I am a small female. When you are choosing a boat keep in mind that there may come a time when your mate may have to sail it alone...for instance if you are sick or injured. While the cabin space is great on a 47''...there are some things on that size boat that are hard for me to do alone. I do not want to have to singlehand a 36'' boat but I do feel that I would be more able to do so on that size if I had to. If your mate is female make sure that whatever you choose if fitted to her body strength also.

bobbi
s/v Kokopelli

[paulk]

Lots of good points in the above posts. The devil''s in the details, though. For example, some of the Hood/Wauquiez 38''s were built so that to go below you climb out of the cockpit, go forward, and then down the main hatch. Not necessarily handicap access, and perhaps dangerous in a seaway. If you''re planning on cruising the Bahamas, you need to watch the draft of your dream boat. If you''re looking to cruise up & down the ICW, you have to be aware of mast height. If you can (re)tell us more of what you plan to do, people may be able to give better advice.
s (

[Stede]

paulk,

The Wauquiez 38 I sailed was a boat I chartered out of St.Martin.The boat had none of the difficulties you describe.I didn''t know there were different configuations for the cockpit to cabin access, but then again, there''s a lot of things I don''t know :^)

[Jeff_H]

This is not all that different than the search that I had done for myself and for a friend of mine who lives in Savanah. There are a lot of boats that could meet your general description. They are listed below in no special order.

Beneteau First 38s5:
I know that a lot of people don''t like Beneteaus especially the Oceanis series, but I really like this model. I have spent quite a bit of time on one and they sail very well, have a really nice layout and seem to hold up quite well. The standard hardware is quite well laid out and sized. The fractional rig really makes shorthanding a lot easier. Great ventilation and interior layout (2 cabin ''owner''s'' plan). In many ways these are ideal boats for what you are planning. Several years ago my friend in Savannah ended up buying one and setting her very nicely. She is for sale due to a decline in his health.

Brewer 12.8 (42 feet):
When my father was looking for a boat he had a lot of specific goals; good build quality, shoal draft, lots of ventilation, seaworthy, comfortable and good performance. We must have looked at literally dozens of boats before homing in on the Brewers. Dad''s is one of the near legendary original dozen which were all centerboard cutters, and it has been a spectacular boat in all ways. He and my stepmother have really enjoyed the boat, cruising the US Atlantic coast (offshore as well as ICW) and out into the Islands. Great boats for what you are trying to do.

C&C 41 (centerboard):
These are high performance cruisers that were quite well constructed. They had first class hardware and deck layouts. The were especially weatherly with the board down. Like many boats on this list these are big jib/small mainsails which is a difficult rig proportion to short hand or in a blow.(I generally prefer the opposite extreme, fractionally rigged sloops)

Dehler 38:
Nicely constructed fractionally rigged sloops. Not all that common in the US and most that are here are the deep keel model. A good boat for your purpose if you can find one.

Farr 11.6 (Farr 38):
Like I said before I too went through the same search a couple years ago. I wanted a boat that was a great coastal cruiser that also had a solid offshore reputation. I wanted a fractional rig for its ease of handing and heavy weather flexibility. I wanted good seaberths and a comfortable motion. I wanted a boat with excellent engineering and high quality construction. I wanted a relatively fast boat. I bought a Farr 11.6. After 2 1/2 years I think I got what I wanted. I would try to find either a South African or New Zealand version.

Hinterhoeller Niagara 42:
Big, solid and well designed. They had two interior layouts and while one was a little strange it was very workable. Excellent ballast ratio and reasonable draft should result in a boat that can stand up what it has to deal with.

Hood 38/Bristol 38/Little Harbor 38/Wauquiez 38:
Hull and rig wise these are all very similar boats. There are some big differences between various years and models that may turn you off. They offer a nice ballance between substantial construction and good sailing ability (although not so great at either end of the wind range). They have a strong and loyal following but a reputation as real rollers (especially the centerboard versions).

J-40:
These boats were designed to be performance cruisers. They offered a very comfortable interior, a good turn of speed and very nice accomodations. They are well constructed and nicely detailed. They make a great couples boat.

J-37C:
A smaller sister to the J-40. A little cramped but perhaps an easier boat to handle.

Kalik Concept 40:
If you can find one without teak decks, these are nice sailing boats with a very nice build quality by the late great Gary Mull. A little short on ventilation.

Sabre 38:
Nice build quality, nice sailing ability, keel centerboarders. They have a real fan club although they are somewhat biased a little toward coastal cruisers.

Sweden Yachts Cayenne 41/42:
These are little known in this country but they are cool boats in a lot of ways. They were designed to be offshore performance cruisers. While there are quite a few ''quirks'' to these boats, they should be pretty fast and very seaworthy. They also should be easy to handle with their fractional rigs and easily driven hull. They have a quite narrow beam which is good in a lot of ways but which means a small interior for a 41 foot boat. One nice feature on some of these boats is a well designed self-tacking jib.

That should be enough to get you started.
Best wishes,
Jeff

[JohnDrake]

Hello to all,

tybee..you have gotten some great advice from a terrific and knowledgable group of folks here. JeffH''s list is a particular well informed one and spans quite a spectrum from relatively light displacement race boats to moderately heavy aft cabin livaboards. Prices in the above list could range from 80-150k.

Just to round out the list I would throw in the Valiant 40, as it is a perenial favorite among long term, long distance cruisers.

Price will likely be your most limiting factor, it is for most people. If not...that is great.

Draft may or may not be a limiting factor...something you have to consider very seriously. I was quite familiar with my intended cruising grounds and knew that draft was an issue for me. That alone eliminated a lot of really good boats.

Those two issues decided, your hunt continues. I think next up is how you want to live on the boat: do you want to sleep in a forward vee berth or an aft cabin. And will you have many guests? Where do you want them to be sleeping?

After all that, I think it comes down to your philosophy as a sailor, whether you are into lighter, faster boats or is livaboard comfort most important to you. The Brewer 12.8 is a very good all around choice: pretty good turn of speed, nice aft cabin, plenty of tankage, nice galley and space in the cabin....but hard to find one in good shape under 150 or so. I do enjoy the speed, comfort and sea kindly motion of my Wauquiez Hood 38...and there is a $20k difference in price between the MK I and MK II (with the regular companionway, not the Baltic/swan style submarine hatch).

If you are going to be living aboard, think about how you will be using the space. How you will cook, navigate, pay bills, lounge down below, watch a movie, sleep in the cockpit etc. These things can really make a significant difference in your enjoyment of your lifestyle. There are a lot of small differences in boats, seat widths, length and widths of berths, cockpit benches etc...that are the difference between being comfortable there and not. Measure, try it out and compare.

Good luck in your search.

John
s/v Invictus
Hood 38

[Jeff_H]

John,

I was actually looking at this list as spanning a $40K to $140K purchase price range. I had considered the Valiant but was concerned that they are generally too deep for the Georgia coast. That said many of these boats are close to the draft of the Valiant so I should have thrown that in. I agree with you it is the ''default answer'' serious cruiser.

Best wishes,
Jeff

[JohnDrake]

Hi Jeff!

You are right...I blew past the list too fast...the 80k was my shoot from the hip response...been very busy lately.

Also agree that the Valiant 40''s 6ft draft puts her out of contention for the Ches down through FLA and the islands. I think the Valiant has some other issues that make it less than ideal, but I am always impressed by the number of people who have lived aboard them for years (I have personally heard of a 15 yr livaboard) and sailed them far and wide. Ones in good shape are pricey.

best

john

[WHOOSH]

Good grief! One can''t live with a 6'' draft when sailing on the Bay and doing the ICW...or on the East Coast of Florida!? Imagine my surprise, having been all these places with close to 6'' of draft and with nary a problem...

Perhaps if you had a thousand weekends to actually nose your way up all the Bay''s narrow tributaries, or if not wanting to bother using the tide tables once or twice and keeping track of the nav aids when transiting a narrow channel with tidal flow...but I surely don''t think 6'' precludes abundant, safe, trouble-free use of a boat in those waters, in general.

Jack