Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 40 Old 02-05-2004
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Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Oh, I forgot another problem with a long boom is the possibility of dipping it in the water when running. This can cause significant damage to boom and rig.

I know someone that converted to a furling boom that was about 3 feet longer than their existing one. They also raised it about a 1.5 feet. Looked odd to me but I think they were concerned about the dipping problem.

Gene
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post #22 of 40 Old 02-05-2004
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Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Hi,

Hi,

You state that you are looking for sailing vessel, 35 feet, primarily for single-handling in offshore waters.

We live in a world were everybody out there has their own opinion. My dear friend JeffH being one of them. Jeff has always pressed the advantages of a fractional rigs. Fractional rigs work on the big Farr designed Volvo Challenge boats, that have a crew of eleven. Fractional rigs are also wonderful on the race course going around the buoys. This is the type of sailing that he does.

Now to my point. Seventy five percent of the cruising vessels out there are being single-handed, I mean actual world voyaging boats out there doing it, are CUTTERS. For a good reason. They work. Offshore, one will work under jib, staysail and main. This is a proven combination that works. In building winds and seas; one will reef the main; then after that partially furl the jib,; then as the wind builds, one throws in another second reef and furls the jib; then the sailor will have just the staysail up and double reef in the main; if the winds builds further, drop the main and staysail will carry the vessel to 50 knots; his vessel will be balanced, the center of effort is low and center; the autopilot works effortlessly, the crew is relaxed.

Take a survey of the boats doing the cruising, and see for yourself that itís much different than the opinions of the sailors that sail the race courses.

I have always sailed successfully a cutter; if it was a Perry designed Norsemann 447, or a Pacific Secraft Crealock 34, or a Valiant 40, or a BCC28, or now a HR53. Iíve owned sailed 200K on these cutters. The design works.

Bernie
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post #23 of 40 Old 02-05-2004
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Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Hi,

You state that you are looking for sailing vessel, 35 feet, primarily for single-handling in offshore waters.

We live in a world were everybody out there has their own opinion. My dear friend JeffH being one of them. Jeff has always pressed the advantages of a fractional rigs. Fractional rigs work on the big Farr designed Volvo Challenge boats, that have a crew of eleven. Fractional rigs are also wonderful on the race course going around the buoys. This is the type of sailing that he does.

Now to my point. Seventy five percent of the cruising vessels out there are being single-handed, I mean actual world voyaging boats out there doing it, are CUTTERS. For a good reason. They work. Offshore, one will work under jib, staysail and main. This is a proven combination that works. In building winds and seas; one will reef the main; then after that partially furl the jib,; then as the wind builds, one throws in another second reef and furls the jib; then the sailor will have just the staysail up and double reef in the main; his vessel will be balanced, the center of effort is low and center; the autopilot works effortlessly, the crew is relaxed.

Take a survey of the boats doing the cruising, and see for yourself that itís much different than the opinions of the sailors that sail the race courses.

I have always sailed successfully a cutter; if it was a Perry designed Norsemann 447, or a Pacific Secraft Crealock 34, or a Valiant 40, or a BCC28, or now a HR53. Iíve owned sailed 200K on these cutters. The design works.

Bernie
Solstice, HR53
RogueWave Yacht Sales
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post #24 of 40 Old 02-05-2004
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Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Gene, Thanks for the reply.
This is one reason for my Questions. My main is streached out and I planing for a replacement within a couple years. I''m not sure I would have the dipping problem. At present my boom is 14'' (luff= 46'')and I still have another 2'' to the back stay. I''ve been heeled over 35 degrees (normal is 15- 20 degrees) and my boom was a long way from the water in white caps and on the wind. Maybe if I were before the wind broaching deep swells, but that seems unusuall? My gooseneck is 8'' off the water and the vessel has a 12'' beam. A longer boom would serve two purposes, one of them would get the traveler out of my cockpit, the other, I would hope for better light air performance.

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post #25 of 40 Old 02-05-2004
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Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Del, a longer boom would help you downwind but will hurt you upwind in anything over light winds. You will have to reef earlier due to the weather helm, and in so doing you loose sail area up high, which helps the boat point higher. Also, 2 feet of clearance to the backstay does not sound like alot to me. Be sure to measure with the boom raised until it is perpendicular to the backstay, one would hate an acidental jibe cause the boom to hit the back stay.

Gene
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post #26 of 40 Old 02-05-2004
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Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Gene, Good point on the back stay! I guess I should just get a QUALITY new mainsail when the time comes. I keep trying to improve this old IOR racer, but it seems I should just leave well enough alone when it comes to the rigging. I will be adding a genoa furling though. Thanks ...........Del
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post #27 of 40 Old 01-21-2016
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Re: Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Newbie post, but familiar with internet forums. I apologize for resurrecting a long-idle thread. I hope this is worthwhile. The theory explanation on fractional rigs was excellent.

The list of boats for the OP was great too ... but a little too big for my needs. I wondered if a list of smaller boats would be helpful to folks. I have not yet found a way to search for boats by rigging details. Sailboatdata.com is a great site but I haven't found a way to search by particular details.

My specific quest is for boats with a 32 foot mast and a boom slightly over 12 feet. A little longer would be better than a little shorter, as I could cut long ones down. Single spreader, about midway would be nice. Older boat that is more likely to have quality bronze hardware. I hope to find one that is a headshaker for renovation because the hull or decks are poor, and scavenge hardware. Or one in better shape to sail a while then cannibalize. The stuff is for a Marples DC-3 trimaran. There is a discussion of it with a link to a sailplan pdf. Sorry, as a newb I can't post links, so put an h in front of this ...

ttp://smalltrimarans.com/blog/dc-3-trimaran-model-wins-woodenboat-design-challenge-iii/]DC-3 Trimaran Model Wins WoodenBoat Design Challenge III

I have been in contact with John Marples and I am doing feasibility research before buying plans. Thanks in advance for any help.

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post #28 of 40 Old 01-21-2016
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Interesting discussion. Personally I'm not crazy about modern fraction rigs being easy offshore. They usually have large swept back spreaders that don't allow the main to be eased out as far as a mast head rigg with straight spreaders and double lowers when sailing down wind. Usually you end up sailing underpowered with a fraction rig because reefing large sails is a pain in the butt. Down wind it's better to have more drive coming from the headsail/headsail which makes it easier on the vane or autopilot to steer. I'm not going to debate Jeff because he is right about the fraction rig advantage but in my experience 90% of the sailors I have run into do not have the racing background nor the skill to get the best out of a fraction rig offshore. Just my opinion!
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post #29 of 40 Old 01-21-2016
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Re: Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

Shiva is a 7/8 fractional w/ a deep fin. She's sailed 10s of thousands of miles offshore.

Not being able to get the boom way out may present less sail area to the wind... but dipping the end of the boom is more likely I suppose. In light air it's not a problem of course.

In heavier air you can run with head sail poled out which works well.

The big sail is heavier and requires more and maybe deeper reefs. I am using the Dutchman system and the big sail is quite controllable.... even single handing which is most of what I do. The boat sails well w/ main alone.

Then of course a monster genny on a masthead rig can be a bitch to deal with!
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Last edited by SanderO; 01-21-2016 at 12:32 PM.
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post #30 of 40 Old 01-21-2016
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Re: Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter

I am a big fan of the staysil/reefed main combination. Great for night, when you have unsettled weather, but you till need to go upwind. A roller reefed jib just does not act the same IMHO. I am very conservative however and usually slow down at night and keep the radar on when I am coastal.
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