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post #21 of 93 Old 07-23-2012
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Re: considering a ferro cement boat

Displacement is going to very based on design;

But item 105 here: The World Of Ferro-cement Boats is a 50 ft FC boat and displaces 18 tons.

And here is a 50 ft steel hull: 1968 Columbia 50 sailboat for sale in Washington
only 2 ton difference.

I looked into the boat in question. It is a 1 owner boat. he built it and sailed it up to 2006. He is now 90 and can't sail it so he donated it to a maritime museum which is selling it as they have no other use for it.

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post #22 of 93 Old 07-23-2012
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Re: considering a ferro cement boat

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Originally Posted by IronSpinnaker View Post
Look up the Palo Alto. It was intentionally sunk in 1929 and considering it has been sitting unmaintained ever since it is still recognizable as a ship.
Also look up the floating breakwater in Powell River B.C. Those old hulls are a century old and still floating. Some of them look like 19th century lumber schooner hulls, with raised fo'csles and poop decks.

The fact that Lambot's ferro dinghy is still floating in France is a testament to the mediums longevity. I sure wouldn't want to try and get it on deck though.

The fact is that a heavy displacement design, properly built in ferro can be a perfectly good boat. Mainly due to Samson being based here, there are quite a few around the Salish Sea - a few of them are very nice boats, some are functional in a workboat kind of way and the majority are junk built by underfunded dreamers who "knew a better way". If you learn the truth about the material and search carefully you can get a decent boat for next to nothing but it will have no "investment" value (as if any boat does.)

Since glass boats are so cheap these days though, I question whether ferro , even a good one, is worth it.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.

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post #23 of 93 Old 07-23-2012
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Re: considering a ferro cement boat

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Originally Posted by IronSpinnaker View Post
Displacement is going to very based on design;

But item 105 here: The World Of Ferro-cement Boats is a 50 ft FC boat and displaces 18 tons.

And here is a 50 ft steel hull: 1968 Columbia 50 sailboat for sale in Washington
only 2 ton difference.
The Columbia 50 is glass, as is noted in the ad. It is a 60's design and would be a very heavy 50' today. A 50' ferro boat that weighed only 36K Lbs would be a rarity - 50K would be more typical of a ferro boat that size.

The fact is that to get a halfway decent amount of ballast, a ferro design HAS to be a heavy displacement design - the minimum hull skin thickness mandates that. The Samson SM 32 I referenced earlier had a displacement of around 14K with a fin keel of about 2K.

Those numbers improve as the boats size goes up since the skin thickness stays the same so it becomes relatively lighter. A 72' pavement princess named Helsal won the Sydney Hobart in the early 70's - she was actually LIGHTER than some of her similar sized competitors IIRC.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.

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post #24 of 93 Old 07-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB:900086
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronSpinnaker View Post
Look up the Palo Alto. It was intentionally sunk in 1929 and considering it has been sitting unmaintained ever since it is still recognizable as a ship.
Also look up the floating breakwater in Powell River B.C. Those old hulls are a century old and still floating. Some of them look like 19th century lumber schooner hulls, with raised fo'csles and poop decks.

The fact that Lambot's ferro dinghy is still floating in France is a testament to the mediums longevity. I sure wouldn't want to try and get it on deck though.
Yet, who'd go to sea in a concrete dingy or a concrete barge? You can find anything on the internet from boats made from garbage, paper to one of glued together beer cans. There's a significant difference between floating and seaworthy. It is what it is.
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post #25 of 93 Old 07-23-2012
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post #26 of 93 Old 07-23-2012
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Re: considering a ferro cement boat

Probably a great hull material if you plan on sailing around the horn of Africa where pirates are a problem because it is bulletproof. It seems like I read an article about some guy in an old ferro cement sailboat who was attacked by pirates and he fired up the engine and rammed and sank the pirate boat.

A 42' ferro cement sailboat broke loose at a local marina during hurricane Ernnesto and it basicly destroyed the marina and sank most of the other boat moored near it. The only damage it suffered was some scratched paint.

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post #27 of 93 Old 07-23-2012 Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the responses so far. I emailed the seller and got a bit more info. She displaces about 10 tons which seems heavyish to me.
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post #28 of 93 Old 07-23-2012
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Re: considering a ferro cement boat

If it costs you $7K and you live aboard it for 7 months, saving 7K in rent ,the boat is free. Then the rigging and gear are all freebees. You quickly reach the point where it owes you nothing. Plus, you had a lot more fun than paying rent to live in an apartment.
Most were sprayfoamed, the best insulation you can get. They are far more comfortable to live aboard , light years more comfortable than most fibreglass boats.
I've never heard of any cement boat having any structural problems whatever, at sea, even in hurricanes.It is high in compression strength ( 15,000 PSI) and low in tensile strength(1,500 psi , same as wood.).
They dont survive collisons with rocks so well. I lost my first boat in Fiji ,a cement boat, on a coral reef , in conditions my steel boat would have had absolutely no problems with. It will be slow , but not much slower than most boats with several years living aboard ballast ( junk) .
Keep her off the rocks and you will get your moneys worth of enjoyment out of her. Stay away from Catalinas. Those would be like living in an ice cube.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

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post #29 of 93 Old 07-23-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: considering a ferro cement boat

Sorry hit post by accident. Her beam is 11 feet and she draws 5'2". The rigging is galvanized steel. The mesh used during construction was galvanized as well. The sails are about 20 years old, apparently lightly used. They also sent a link to a PDF that has photos of her at various stages of construction. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/59756107/SUN...s%20Cutter.pdf

The heavy displacement concerns me especially in light winds. Just to give you an idea of what I'd be using her for, I'm taking the next year or more off and plan on cruising around van isle, the inside passage and hadai gwai. Most of the time I'll be single handed. Other then this boat I've mainly been considering vessels under 30 feet, with a tendency towards albin vegas. A bigger boat would mean I have more room for my tools which could increase my chances of finding the odd job along the coast.

Resale is not an issue. I was going to post a link to the survey, didn't know if that would be ethical though.
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post #30 of 93 Old 07-23-2012
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Re: considering a ferro cement boat

Agri,
Just looking at the pics and knowing she is ferro tells me she will be slow given her size. Its the problem with ferro and steel boats under forty odd feet. There is a lot of weight in the hull itself and in order to keep the displacement down this weight tends to come out of the keel.
As an example, our old girl was a Van de Stadt 34, steel multi chine. A good mate of ours has one in cold moulded ply. Standard specs for a VDS34 in steel is Disp 5.4t, timber 4.5t. At the same time the steel boat carries only 1.8t of ballast against the timbers 2.0t. Now we did a lot of miles in that old girl and she was a marvelous boat but quick (especially in light air) she was not.
So if you want to sail, and you know a lot of that will be in light airs then my guess is that this boat is not for you. Otoh, as a warm cozy motor sailor for the PNW she just might fit the bill.

Andrew B

“Life is a trick, and you get one chance to learn it.”
― Terry Pratchett, Nation

Malo 39 Classic
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