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  #1  
Old 03-01-2004
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Advice Wanted:32-36''''

My wife and I currently sail a 31'' Cape Dory and are looking for our next boat as our needs are changing (two kids under the age of five, doing more entertaining on the boat, desire more creature comforts and modern features). We mostly do coastal day sails and a few costal cruising trips a year (two-five nights) in Sandy Hook bay, the Hudson River and LI Sound. Here are my requirements (realizing that it''s all about trade-offs):
- Budget of $100,000
- Need two double berths
- Beam of at least 11''6 to get the required volume below
- Easy sail handling plan
- Something other than a Hunter or Catalina as we favor traditional good looks

Anyone have some ideas?
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  #2  
Old 03-01-2004
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Advice Wanted:32-36''''

Hans Christian
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Old 03-01-2004
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Advice Wanted:32-36''''

Shell:

We''ll all wait for Jeff to wade in as he''s a proverbial encyclopedia of the boat market. Meanwhile, a couple of thoughts...

With respect I don''t think a HC 33 is what you''re looking for, despite its qualities. You need a mid-size family sedan, not a wood-laden offroad SUV...and I suspect you''d want a much more ''family friendly'' cockpit given the daysailing you plan. Add guests and things move past crowded.

You''re swimming upstream by seeking ''traditional good looks'' (by which I assume you mean medium overhangs, wood trim, traditional transom, and/or what I like to call New England lines). That''s simply not the direction the popularly priced boat market has gone in the last 15 years. Builders who have tried to maintain a more ''traditional style'' tend to be (mostly smaller) builders who build & equip to more of a cruising market and appeal to buyers willing to pay more (later Bayfields, IPs and such). I haven''t even mentioned high end bulders like Morris, Pacific Seacraft or Shannon, nor do they offer the volume you need.

IMO a risk you run if drawn to the more traditional designs (even semi-modern lines like the Sabre 34 or 36) is that you will be looking at boats significantly older for your price range and which, altho'' perhaps well maintained and even reequipped over time, will still exact higher maintenance workload and cost penalities from you, two things no family with two young kids needs.<g>

When looking at your intended sailing plans, space & accommodation requirements, sailing season (you''ll only be using it 6 mos/year) and budget, you are the ideal candidate for the ''price boats'' that exist in abundance, offer the high volume you seek at the high end of your size category without undue sailing penalties, and are within your price range. Whether German, French or USA-built, there are many manufacturer choices out there that suit your needs...but it surely isn''t helpful for me to suggest boats that lack interest for you.

Is it unreasonable to suggest that you re-evaluate your preferences, to place a bit more emphasis on form following function? If you wanted a well-found & equipped bluewater 35 footer for $50K, we''d be quick to suggest you reconsider at least one of your criteria. Perhaps the same suggestion applies to your family''s wants vs. needs.

I''ll be interested in seeing what others can suggest.

Jack
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Old 03-02-2004
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Advice Wanted:32-36''''

Jack: I think you hit the nail on the head. This is a sailing venue that rewards a bit more performance (especially in the lighter conditions of summer) than traditional designs would normally afford.

As I read the original post, I think that moderate designs like Tartans, Sabres, the later Hood designed Bristols (i.e. such as the 35.5 and not the Bristol 32) and Wauquez, might be better suited to Shell''s sailing goals and budget.

I agree with you that the HC 33 would not really be a good choice given Shell''s criteria, except perhaps on aesthetic grounds, [although frankly, I am not sure what criteria would make the HC 33 a good choice except perhaps on aesthetic grounds ;^)].

Respectfully,
Jeff

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Old 03-02-2004
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Advice Wanted:32-36''''

That sailing venue will allow you to have a fairly deep keeled boat but you will want one especially stiff. With a budget of 100k and two kids, I would think you could easily reward yourself with a boat that has two private staterooms.

While not overly traditional in its lines, I think the Wauquiez Pretorian 35 is well within your grasp. It is a wonderful sailing machine with a very comfy cabin and nice motion. I am not sure, but perhaps there is a Tartan or Saber somewhere in that range.

Having two private staterooms is a very nice feature in a boat. Adds a lot of privacy and gives people space.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 03-02-2004
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shellman is on a distinguished road
Advice Wanted:32-36''''

Thanks everyone for the input, very helpful. I was thinking along those lines but was surprised by the new 2004 Henderson designed 33''. It showed me some thought and attention to detail that I had not seen in Hunters before and made me reevaluate my thinking. Anyone else have any observations on this boat?

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Advice Wanted:32-36''''

Shell:

Just a P.S. after seeing John''s and Jeff''s suggestions. One problem we all face is that some really good boats are now - regrettably - long in the tooth. The Wauquiez Pretorian 35 is one such example (and also not as spacious as I thought you were looking for). It''s a great sailing boat and, projecting my preferences onto your own, I''d want a really nice sailing boat as my kids got old enough to handle the helm and crank a winch. It won''t be the same as learning to sail in the dink, but they can do that too. It''s stiff, weatherly and safe...but just not easy to own given its age, I fear.

The 35.5 certainly ''fits'' re: style or lines, but again it''s a 15 year old boat, and just entering that period where things break readily when you''d rather be dinking ashore to walk the beach or cook weenies in a firepit.

Tartan''s always had clean lines that somehow merge the traditional with the modern (does that make them ''classic'' ala Bill Blass clothes?) but I don''t know of a Tartan that''s new and/or spacious enough for <$100K and to beat a dead horse, I don''t think an older boat with more demanding maintenance efforts or upgrade costs suits your circumstances. And Sabres fall into the same category, I fear - either too new to be affordable or too old to be ''easily owned''.

Don''t forget to come back and share your eventual decision with us; that''s ''our payment'' for all the two-cent comments and collective widsom.<g> Now I''ll button it up and look to learn more, myself.

Jack
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Old 03-03-2004
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Advice Wanted:32-36''''

Shellman-
As you have a Cape Dory you are unlikely of the racing set and whereas you want creature comforts, modern features and ROOM, traditional good looks, then you should at least add the 31 or 32 Island Packets to your list, if only for comparison.

I now speak to the features personally enjoyed by me and my family on our IP32 Morning Star. Belowdecks are huge compared to other boats of equal length, main saloon table folds neatly out of the way against the main bulkhead and easily seats up to 7 when fully open. No mast to squeeze and navigate around as it also is against the main bulkhead. Forward cabin, saloon and aft cabin all offer comfortable double berths, albeit the saloon berth offers no privacy. Galley is second to none with an ice box big enough to put both your kids and their friends in when they get out of hand ;-)... Seaward oven and range, double sink.

The cockpit is a gigantic seven foot long. All sheets, halyards, reefing and control lines are led there for safety and convenience. Also in the cockpit is a huge lazarette and rope locker. The cutter rig can and does add to the safety of your passage when you find yourself in seas and winds where any part of the genoa is too much sail forward and the staysail fills the bill.

In the beginning sure I was kidded about her speed (or lack therof) in light wind conditions but for the most part that is only slightly problematical when winds drop below 8 knots or so and you are working the beat. In fact, to offset that I added an asymmetrical to my sail inventory early on and when off the wind have no problem getting the boat speed up to half the wind speed. Of course where she really shines is above 12 kts AWS, at 15 to 25 when everyone around you has reduced sail to one or two reefs you are standing nearly upright with a full sail plan flying along at hull speed.

I have been back and forth to Bermuda four times in our 32, once singlehanded, and I would offer this boat up pound for pound as one of the safest sea kindly boats available anywhere, for any money and if you shop around you can find the IP-32 in the 100/110k range, the IP31, another fine boat can be found at 60k and up.

My boat is not for sale but whereas you live in the same area that I do (NJ) you are more than welcome to come out and see how well she performs....underway or at the dock next spring (if it ever gets here)

Capt. Bruce
www.boatskipper.com
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Old 03-03-2004
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Advice Wanted:32-36''''

I would think that the problem with a boat like the IP would be the prevlence of light air in the venue that is being proposed. I would also suggest that a cutter rig is a real pain the butt as a coastal cruising rig where tacking occurs much more frequently than offshore (especially when coupled with the large headsails that are a necessity in a light air venue). The other thing is that LIS rewards a little bit of performance with a lot more places to duck into on a weekend. The IP 32 rates even with the Cape Dory that he is selling, so he would not be taking advantage of the potential performance gained by moving up to a bigger boat and would be giving up a lot of potential sailing days during the heart of the season to boot. As you note speed may not be important to Shellman but it seems to me with his situation he would be better served with a design that is more optimized for the use that he is proposing.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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Advice Wanted:32-36''''

Jeff-
With all due respect, leaving my mooring at 0700 I am in the Atlantic by 1030, I just dont understand your light air venue remark, yes for Annapolis sailors and some inland LIS sailors but not for Atlantic sailing, and in fact, if I read Shellman''s message correctly, his sailing in Sandy Hook Bay has him minutes from the ocean, in fact the line between the two bodies of water is separated only by mere plankten.

What your comment about the tacking pain-in-the-butt with the IP cutter rig tells me is that you have spent little, and in all probability no time at all sailing one, so you might stand down just a little until you do so. And in keeping with this good spirited exchange, I extend the same invitation to you that I did Shellman. If you are travelling to the NYC area I would be happy to have you aboard to correct your very strong but baseless biased opinions about the Island Packet 32.

Capt. Bruce Gregory
www.boatskipper.com
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