Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey" - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree43Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 09-26-2012
jasn's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 49
Thanks: 35
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
jasn is on a distinguished road
Re: Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey"

There's no reason to put this into the contract because the seller always has the right to offer "no discounts after survey". Maybe they've been "burned" before where they tried to make a deal and the buyer came back with a bunch of discount demands once the survey was completed. However, again, the seller has the right to look the buyer in the eye at that point and say no to any discount demands they produce.

As others have pointed out, you have the right to reject this deal after the survey, for any reason. And if you reject this deal, you are certainly able to offer the seller a new deal, based on the new information. It strikes me that this is just as silly as you writing a clause into the contract stating that you can reject the deal for any reason at all.

A long time ago I was moving from New Orleans to the Boston area, and I was selling the stuff I didn't want to bring with me. This included a cheap weight bench and set of weights. I had listed them for 50.00 knowing full well that I wanted to get rid of them, and they were at least worth that much. I figured that 50.00 was the bare minimum price to make the transaction worth my while. Any lower and it would have been easier to just donate or trash it.

The first call I got, (the minute the ad hit the street), was from someone who setup an appointment to see them that morning. When he arrived he starting pointing out how the bench wasn't a modern design, and that he could buy cast iron weights for .25 cents a pound, and on and on. I just waited him out and when he stopped talking I asked him, "So how much do you want to offer me for the set?". He said, "25.00 dollars". I told him, "Thanks, but I want 50.00. I've got your number and if I can't find someone to buy the set for 50.00, I'll call you back." He looked hurt that I hadn't agreed with him and sold him the set for 1/2 what I was asking. The very next guy that showed up within 60 seconds, asked me what I wanted, I said 50.00 dollars, and he said I'll take 'em.

Both parties should feel empowered in a deal, because they actually are.

Good Luck..

Last edited by jasn; 09-26-2012 at 08:59 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 09-26-2012
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,436
Thanks: 6
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Re: Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey"

I agree the clause is of no particular effect, I'd proceed. Any post-survey reduction in price is always subject to negotiation, clause or not, and the buyer has an absolute power to say NO. to a reduction.

Even with the clause, you want a reduction for cause, the seller has to make the same decision they would, without the clause. I'd call it just a little gamesmanship, ignore it.
__________________
Certified...in several regards...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 09-26-2012
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,300
Thanks: 10
Thanked 118 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Re: Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey"

The seller is just telling you that you've negotiated your best price and there is no more room.

If you want the boat go for the survey. Remember the survey, for all intense & purposes, is so you can get insurance and know the boat is safe.

They are not intended, as many people try to use them, as a further negotiation tool. Sounds to me like the seller is an experienced seller and been through the nickle & dime dance before.
Melrna, chef2sail, Squidd and 1 others like this.
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 09-26-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 2,024
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 9
PalmettoSailor will become famous soon enough
Re: Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidd View Post
So he already dropped his selling price and "now" you want to add(subtract) survey and sea trial discounts on top....??Isn't that double dipping...?

Seems you should start at the "asking price...subtract the defects noted in survey/sea trial (which may be great or inconsequential) and then "discount" the offer even more if you feel lucky...

That's like negotiating best price on a new car and "then" asking how much for my trade in...
No that's not double dipping and its exaclty how both of our boat purchases and out boat sale transpired.

You make an offer based on your evaluation of the boat in the current market assuming what YOU know about the boat at that point. After the survey you know more and may want to reevaluate your offer. If a seller will not negotiate further, the buyer may suck it up and buy the boat warts and all or consider the investment in the survey a best money ever spent and move on to a better bet.
__________________
PalmettoSailor
s/v Palmetto Moon
1991 Catalina 36
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 09-26-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 2,024
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 9
PalmettoSailor will become famous soon enough
Re: Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
I agree the clause is of no particular effect, I'd proceed. Any post-survey reduction in price is always subject to negotiation, clause or not, and the buyer has an absolute power to say NO. to a reduction.

Even with the clause, you want a reduction for cause, the seller has to make the same decision they would, without the clause. I'd call it just a little gamesmanship, ignore it.
I fully agree with this assesment.

When you've come to the point of surveying a boat, you're at the point of "hold your nose and jump in". If the survey turns up unexpected warts you can still make a lower offer or walk, knowing the survery cost was really a savings.
__________________
PalmettoSailor
s/v Palmetto Moon
1991 Catalina 36
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 09-26-2012
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,436
Thanks: 6
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Re: Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
.... Sounds to me like the seller is an experienced seller and been through the nickle & dime dance before.
All true, but if a substantial un-disclosed defect is found, say delaminated decks, the negotiation will start again, clause or not. It has too, as the finding lowers the value of the boat... and the seller will largely have to suck that fact up.
__________________
Certified...in several regards...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 09-26-2012
steve77's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Salem, MA
Posts: 481
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Rep Power: 5
steve77 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
All true, but if a substantial un-disclosed defect is found, say delaminated decks, the negotiation will start again, clause or not. It has too, as the finding lowers the value of the boat... and the seller will largely have to suck that fact up.
I'm in the process of (hopefully) buying a boat and this is exactly what has happened. The sale is being handled by a broker, there were a few known issues that I was made aware of, and after looking at the boat I made my offer, which was accepted. The survey found high moisture readings on the deck, and one area in particular that the surveyor believed was delaminated. All parties agreed to have a boatyard (one that we both had used before) look at the boat and provide an estimate to repair the deck. The yard provided the estimate, they did not believe there was any delamination. Because of the conflicting opinions, the broker arranged for the yard to go ahead and take some core samples to get a clearer picture of the situation (I'm waiting on the results).

The survey turned up a few other issues that prevented doing a sea trial (the boat has been on the hard for a year) and the current owner is going to have those addressed. The estimate that we eventually get from the yard is going to be used to negotiate a new purchase price. In this situation the seller would have to deal with the deck issues, either with this sale now or with someone else who is interested in buying the boat. So saying that the price is firm regardless of what the survey finds is kind of pointless (which the seller I'm dealing with did not do) if he really wants to sell the boat.
chef2sail likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 09-27-2012
caberg's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 574
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 3
caberg is on a distinguished road
Re: Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey"

This is exactly how a home inspection provision would work in a P&S contract. You don't get the right to deduct from the purchase price for things found in the inspection--you get the right to walk away.

Practically speaking, the seller is going to make a price accommodation or fix the issue, because if you walk then the next buyer is bound to find the same issue. Even more, now the seller knows about the issue and has to consider whether he'd need to disclose it to a future buyer.

Ever see this Gemini for sale? The Slapdash | No Fixed Address
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 09-27-2012
eherlihy's Avatar
Learning the HARD way...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 3,467
Thanks: 107
Thanked 58 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Re: Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey"

Bottom line, Do you think that you want this boat for that price? If so, put a refundable deposit on it, and have it surveyed.

After the survey, ask yourself the same question. If the answer is still yes, proceed to close the deal. If not, get your deposit back and walk away. Consider the survey an education expense.
mikehoyt, ccriders and chef2sail like this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 09-27-2012
denverd0n's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 854
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 7
denverd0n is on a distinguished road
Re: Seller agreed to offer, but set a clause,"no discounts after survey"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Remember the survey, for all intense & purposes, is so you can get insurance and know the boat is safe.
I have to disagree. Maybe if you are highly experienced with working on boats, seeing the different kinds of things that can be wrong with them, and have a good idea what's involved in fixing those sorts of things, then this might be true. Based on your past postings, I suspect this describes you.

Most of us are NOT that familiar with all of the various things that can be wrong. We hire a surveyor because we want someone with more experience to look the boat over and determine if there is anything wrong (read: costly to fix) that we have missed. We hire a surveyor to help us avoid making a very expensive mistake.

If the survey reveals something that we missed, and that the broker/seller did not disclose, then it is perfectly reasonable to reopen negotiations, or just walk away. Indeed, it would be foolish NOT to!
ccriders likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Seacock" vs. "ballcock" or "ball valve?" SEMIJim Gear & Maintenance 18 09-02-2013 05:31 PM
VIDEO: Coast Guard Academy Welcomes "Blue Goose" and "Stormy Petrel" - Patch.com NewsReader News Feeds 0 07-28-2012 07:50 AM
Trusting a "Recent" Survey? campbdon Boat Review and Purchase Forum 16 11-26-2008 02:41 PM
C270 Main Sail "stack Pack", Quick Cover", "lazy Bag" Install randy22556 Catalina 1 02-28-2007 11:53 AM
Boat "examination" instead of a survey Pamlicotraveler Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 08-23-2006 03:31 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:36 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.