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  #1  
Old 03-09-2004
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J-Boat 41

Question to everyone:

I have been reading all the postings on this message board and they have been a great source of information.
I am looking for some information on a J-Boat 41. I checked with www.jboats.com, but because the J41 is an older model, they donít offer any type of information. I searched on www.Google.com, not much there either.
I was wondering if anyone here has ever owned, sailed / raced a J41 and if they can provide me with any type of information. How does the boat handle, goes to weather, is the J41 a boat you can day sail, or just for racing. How much crew do you need to handle the boat under sailing / racing conditions. Are there any specific problems with this type of boat to look for and avoid?

Any information Ė opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2004
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J-Boat 41

(I am assuming that you are referring to the J-41 and not the 41 foot J-125)The J-41 was designed as a IOR one tonner. They were moderately successful winning the 1 Ton class at the SORC, back when the SORC was a world class event, and they won the One-Ton worlds held in Annapolis. This was an era when One-tonners had become strictly race boats and so there is almost no headroom or interior accomodations on these boats. IOR boats of that era required very big crews (8-10 people) to be raced successfully, or even keep the rig in the boat.

Boats like these took a lot of skill to sail, and more skill to sail well. They are tender and easily overpowered. Their rigs were fragile and needed careful playing of the checkstays to keep in column. I had looked at one that was very cheaply priced but ultimately ruled it out as being unsuitable for adaptation to a single-hander and concluded that the J-41 requiring too many people to even go out daysailing.

It hard to say what should be done with these old IOR era raceboats. They are a real bear to race under IMS where poor ratings and crew number restrictions really clobber them. They have often have great gear and sails but proportioned in a manner that makes them hard to handle and which requires a big strong crew to manhandle.

They do not do well under PHRF either. Compared to IMS designs these old IOR designs are comparatively very slow boats. This difference in speed is quite dramatic if you compare a J-41 which rates 72 to IMS boats of the same era such as the Farr 39ML which rates 18 or a Tripp 40 which rates 15.

Under PHRF, J-boats own J-35 is scratch with the J-41 (both at 72) and for a similar purchase price a J-35 can get by with smaller crew, cheaper sail inventories, has better accomodations and can sail more easily to their ratings in a wider range of windspeeds. If you have a smaller budget and want to short-hand at all, you might look at a J-36 as well.

So what do you do with a boat that can''t be raced competitively, or cruised, or even easily daysailed but which costs a whole lot to properly maintain no less compaign, (even when they are as beautiful to look at as a J-41)? I don''t have an answer although though I have wrestled with this on many an occasion. (If you feel compelled to go the old IOR One Tonner route you might look for an older Farr one tonner as they tend to be a little bit more rounded in their sailing abilities. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked _boats=1015473&slim=quick& )

Respectfully,
Jeff



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Old 03-10-2004
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J-Boat 41

Hi Jeff, thanks a lot for the wealth of information you have provided me with.

You are correct; I was referring to the J41, not the J125. When I checked the available information on the boat, I saw that there is almost no interior, except pipe berths. I was not aware of the strength of the rig, or the sailing capabilities. I will be sailing the boat on the Long Island Sound, day sailing most of the time, shorthanded, and maybe some racing at some point later on in time. I have sailed on a J24 and a J29 but thatís as far as my experience with the J-Boats goes. I am not familiar with any of their other models.

I followed your advice and checked out the J-35ís and J-36ís on www.yachtworld.com. There were a lot more J-35ís for sale than J-36ís, does that mean that the 35ís are structurally better or more desirable than the 36ís? It seems that both boats are similar but their major difference is the price. A J-35 is almost twice as expensive as a J-36. Why is that? They both seem to be same size boats, with same capabilities. Do you happen to know their PHRF ratings? Have you ever sailed / raced on a J-35 or a J-36? How do they handle under sail? Do you know what their performances are?

Thanks again for any information you can provide.
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Old 03-10-2004
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J-Boat 41

The J-36 was the third design that J-boats produced after the J-24 and J-30. It was a fractionally rigged design that was not rule based but which was set up like the ocean racers of that day in terms of interior layout and deck plan. They are very good boats for that era but are a bit spartan down below.

J-boat eventially cut down the hull mold for the J-30 and used the weight savings to add a heavier, more efficient keel and an optional masthead rig to produce the J-29. That treatment was so successful that J-boats cut down the hull mold for the J-36 and went to a simplified deck plan, a deeper/ heavier keel, tiller steering and a masthead rig version that became the J-35. The J-35 is a very versitile design offer good performance in a wide range of conditions. Later J-35''s were offered with an optional pretty full interior but of course minimal headroom and cruising gear.

J-35''s are still competitive race boats typically rating somewhere around 72 and still with active one design fleets in much of the country. The J-35 is generally considered 9 to 12 seconds a mile slower, especially in a lighter air venue like Long Island Sound. The J-36 is actually an easier boat to handle and certainly the easier of the two to single-hand assuming that the deck layout has been modified.

Three reasonable alternatives to these boats would be the Express 37, Frers 36 (F3) and the Farr 11.6, each with their own advantages and disadvantages.

Jeff
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Old 03-17-2004
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J-Boat 41

Thanks Jeff for all the great information you have provided me with!
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Old 04-13-2010
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J 41 continued

Jeff-
If gotten cheaply could this J 41 be turned into a comfortable live aboard? and single handed or double handed safely around the chesapeake and eventually the BVI's? Without breaking the bank to convert things?

I'm dreaming of being a liveaboard. It seems that if I am going to buy anything, I'm going to have to do it without much help from the banks. They need it to be a newer boat which means more expensive boat or smaller boat. I'd like something like a 36 or 38' Catalina, but to gather that much in cash would take me a while. So the idea is to get a deal on a boat that I could make into something just right for myself over time.
Thanks,
Jose
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Old 04-14-2010
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I think Jeff already answered this when he said:

Quote:
Boats like these took a lot of skill to sail, and more skill to sail well. They are tender and easily overpowered. Their rigs were fragile and needed careful playing of the checkstays to keep in column. I had looked at one that was very cheaply priced but ultimately ruled it out as being unsuitable for adaptation to a single-hander and concluded that the J-41 requiring too many people to even go out daysailing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josehoya View Post
Jeff-
If gotten cheaply could this J 41 be turned into a comfortable live aboard? and single handed or double handed safely around the chesapeake and eventually the BVI's? Without breaking the bank to convert things?

I'm dreaming of being a liveaboard. It seems that if I am going to buy anything, I'm going to have to do it without much help from the banks. They need it to be a newer boat which means more expensive boat or smaller boat. I'd like something like a 36 or 38' Catalina, but to gather that much in cash would take me a while. So the idea is to get a deal on a boat that I could make into something just right for myself over time.
Thanks,
Jose
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Old 04-14-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josehoya View Post
Jeff-
If gotten cheaply could this J 41 be turned into a comfortable live aboard? and single handed or double handed safely around the chesapeake and eventually the BVI's? Without breaking the bank to convert things?

I'm dreaming of being a liveaboard. It seems that if I am going to buy anything, I'm going to have to do it without much help from the banks. They need it to be a newer boat which means more expensive boat or smaller boat. I'd like something like a 36 or 38' Catalina, but to gather that much in cash would take me a while. So the idea is to get a deal on a boat that I could make into something just right for myself over time.
Thanks,
Jose
Jose,

I don't think the J-41 would be a good choice for what you plan to do with this boat. While you may be able to pick one up inexpensively, it would be a very poor choice for short-handed cruising and living aboard. So many modifications would need to be made that it would prove a false economy. And even then it would not be well suited compared to many other boats conceived for your purposes from the outset.

Based on the little info you've provided, it really sounds like price of admission is a driving factor. If so, you might be wise to modify your search and look at smaller boats. The refit and on-going maintenance of a 41 footer, will be something like twice the cost of a mid-30 footer.

So you might save a lot over time by scaling back your size requirement, and paying a bit more for a well-suited design in decent condition. Fortunately, you don't necessarily have to compromise on comfort. There are many mid-30 footers that will always be more comfortable and better suited to your purposes than even a heavily modified J-41.
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Old 04-14-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
The J-36 was the third design that J-boats produced after the J-24 and J-30. It was a fractionally rigged design that was not rule based but which was set up like the ocean racers of that day in terms of interior layout and deck plan. They are very good boats for that era but are a bit spartan down below.

J-boat eventially cut down the hull mold for the J-30 and used the weight savings to add a heavier, more efficient keel and an optional masthead rig to produce the J-29. That treatment was so successful that J-boats cut down the hull mold for the J-36 and went to a simplified deck plan, a deeper/ heavier keel, tiller steering and a masthead rig version that became the J-35. The J-35 is a very versitile design offer good performance in a wide range of conditions. Later J-35''s were offered with an optional pretty full interior but of course minimal headroom and cruising gear.

J-35''s are still competitive race boats typically rating somewhere around 72 and still with active one design fleets in much of the country. The J-35 is generally considered 9 to 12 seconds a mile slower, especially in a lighter air venue like Long Island Sound. The J-36 is actually an easier boat to handle and certainly the easier of the two to single-hand assuming that the deck layout has been modified.

Three reasonable alternatives to these boats would be the Express 37, Frers 36 (F3) and the Farr 11.6, each with their own advantages and disadvantages.

Jeff
Great stuff Jeff. To the OP, if you're going to do some racing, it's all about a boat's ability to sail near it's rating and the cost involved to make it do so. As Jeff mentions, and it can never be repeated enough, before you buy any boat, talk to several people to get an idea of the actual cost of running the boat that's caught your eye. A quick call and a couple of ball park estimates from a sailmaker is one of the first things that will reduce your dreams by about 5' LOA (if not more) in a heartbeat!
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Old 04-14-2010
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I would add that you should get a clear picture in mind of what kind of sailing you really want to be doing. If you want to daysail, especially shorthanded, then you should look at a smaller boat. The bigger the boat the more it costs to operate, the more effort is required for even short daysails, with the result being that you will use it a lot less. If you are thinking about living aboard, that brings up a whole other set of issues, but chances are you would be doing little daysailing at that point too.

When you see a boat like a J41 advertised for what seems like peanuts, it can look like a winning lottery ticket someone dropped on the ground. I promise you that is only an illusion. There is a reason why the boat is that price, and it is because it has a very narrow range of uses, and costs a ton of money to run.
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