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post #11 of 36 Old 10-07-2012
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

"GENERALLY" speaking, Jeanneau's have been a touch upper scale than Beneteau. They have different presidents if you will, with there own how they wish to do things. YES< some things are one and the same, but generally speaking, a given boat of a given size, will be designed by a different architect! so it is not as simple as an olds vs chev, where the body/shassis of the car is the same, but different trim levels. Both design and trim levels will be different.

Jeanneau does generally speaking gives you a good bang for the buck. Reality is, Jeanneau, Beneteau, Catalina and to a degree Hunter here in the states, do have similar price points for a given model. Jeanneau does shoot for having a well sailable boat.

The boat in Anacortes, IE the 49Ip, is owned by the owner of the local jeanneau dealer. He bought that to take his family on a 2-3 yr cruise from here in Seattle to Oz and back. ONE of his at the time 15 yr old daughter's was steering the boat doing 15 knots in some low 20 knot winds. 20' seas with an AS up, easy as pie, being as his daughters are little string beans, maybe 100 lbs dripping wet! they had no issues sailing the boats. MOST are designed by Marc Lambeaugh.......hope I spelled the last name correct, altho I think it is not frankly........That boat is setup for an ocean cruise, you could take off tomorrow, the beneteau that is referenced, would guess is not as setup! not sure there is normally that much difference between the two boats.........

Jeanneaus are cross's between the Beneteau First and Oceanus setups. Not as quick/powerful as a First, but more so than an Oceanus. Generally speaking, more than a Catalina or Hunter.

Reality is, some like Jeanneaus better than bene's, or catalinas, and vice versa.

If it will suit what you want to do, like the interior, join Zanshin and myself at the Jeanneau owners area. if not, you could Join CD at the catalina forum, but I am sure with his bull dog posting upon occasion, it is not as much fun!

Marty
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post #12 of 36 Old 10-07-2012
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

I looked very hard at both, Jeanneau 409 and Beneteau Oceanis 41 and ended up choosing the B41. The J409 design seems a bit more seaworthy but the B41 offers better value, and has a roomier cabin and cockpit. As far as built quality, they are made at the same factory and after looking at both vessel in and out, I couldn't really tell a difference.
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post #13 of 36 Old 10-07-2012
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

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The boat in Anacortes, IE the 49Ip, is owned by the owner of the local jeanneau dealer. He bought that to take his family on a 2-3 yr cruise from here in Seattle to Oz and back. ONE of his at the time 15 yr old daughter's was steering the boat doing 15 knots in some low 20 knot winds. 20' seas with an AS up, easy as pie, being as his daughters are little string beans, maybe 100 lbs dripping wet! they had no issues sailing the boats. MOST are designed by Marc Lambeaugh.......hope I spelled the last name correct, altho I think it is not frankly........That boat is setup for an ocean cruise, you could take off tomorrow,....
That's the one, Ruby Slippers:
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post #14 of 36 Old 10-07-2012 Thread Starter
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

Thank you for all your comments so far, they are really helping. Is there any downside to the iron bolt-on keel or the deck-stepped mast?

Mike
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post #15 of 36 Old 10-07-2012
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

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Thank you for all your comments so far, they are really helping. Is there any downside to the iron bolt-on keel or the deck-stepped mast? Mike
People trash talk iron keels a lot. Undoubtedly lead is best but iron works well as long as the lower density is accounted for in the design. They can rust if not sealed in epoxy but if they ARE sealed, it isn't the maintenance nightmare some suggest.

Bill Garden figured iron was better for cruising boats that sometimes have to "feel" their way into anchorages because it bounces off any obstructions while lead, due to its softness, "forms" around the obstruction and transmits more impact into the hull.

I've seen iron keeled boats bounce off rocks and it looked exactly like he described.

One nice aspect of iron keels is that the bolts (studs actually) can be withdrawn and inspected as well as easily replaced - not so for lead.
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I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #16 of 36 Old 10-07-2012
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

The only REAL bad downside I can think of for an iron keel, is is it harder than lead, so if you hit a rock, the hull will feel it more than with lead. Another issue, altho minor to a degree, lets say you need 2000 lbs of material in a bulb as the new boats will have, the iron bulb will be bigger in volume so not as fast or streamlined if I am typing that correct. BOTH, should keep you upright just fine if designed correctly. Worry about RM IMHO more than lead vs iron.

As far as deck stepped vs keel.......both IMHO are good and bad. JeffH seems to personally IIRC like deck stepped. One advantage I can see, is there is no water leaking from the seals etc to the bilge! The only time my bilge has had water is a water tank leak, a NEW PSS shaft that was vented incorrectly, and recently when I forgot to close the ice chest drain valve, put ice in the IC, and it started to melt! I'm sure both have weakness's too. One of the things now that I am typing Jeff likes, IF you do get dismasted, with a deck top, if you can salvage the boom, it is easier to use this as a makeshift mast vs a keel stepped setup. Reality, take you lumps either way. Keels are the same IMHO.

marty

Now that I am done typing, I see sloop is saying lead will transmit more to the hull......hmmmmmm....he does have good points.......so I could be wrong!
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post #17 of 36 Old 10-07-2012
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

I'm no boat engineer but it's really hard to see any advantage to an iron keel (other than it being cheaper). Iron rusts, so how can tis bee

To me, this is a deal breaker.

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post #18 of 36 Old 10-08-2012
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

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Now that I am done typing, I see sloop is saying lead will transmit more to the hull......hmmmmmm....he does have good points.......so I could be wrong!
The incident I witnessed that seemed to back up what Garden wrote was an old wood motorsailer motoring along close to shore one evening. I was watching from a high bank foreshore when they hit a rock about 300 yards out. There was an almighty CLANG and the boat lifted visibly. They altered course a few degrees toward deeper water and kept on motoring - no visible fire drill or anything.

Whenever I've witnessed a lead keeled boat hit they've come to a dead stop.

Not exactly a science experiment but that HAS to impart more stress to the boat don't you think?

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #19 of 36 Old 10-08-2012
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

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I'm no boat engineer but it's really hard to see any advantage to an iron keel (other than it being cheaper). Iron rusts, so how can tis bee
To me, this is a deal breaker.
I was up in arms for the iron keel being a deal breaker and thought I'd show that the big name brands had gone that way, but I was wrong:

Oyster - lead
Nautor Swan - lead
Hallberg-Rassy - lead

Then to some other brands:

Jeanneau - iron
Beneteau - iron
Bavaria - iron
Hanse - iron
Island Packet - iron / lead
Catalina - lead
Hunter - iron
Tayana - iron


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post #20 of 36 Old 10-08-2012
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Re: Tell Me About Jeanneaus

Sloop,

That does look like a real item in reality. I kept thinking I have heard it the other way......

zanshin

at the end of the day, it is cost for many of the brands shown. Oyster buyers are not going to worry about a 5G keel vs 2500 lets say for an iron keel, Oyster buyers are already paying a million or so for a boat, so 2500 is not a big deal. Lower price point buyers in the 100-200K range. may.......

I only see it personally as a is the wt part taken care of, then the iron being as it is less dense, will take up more volume below the water line, so 5000 lbs of lead should have less resistance than 5000 lbs of iron equally proportioned.

At the end of the day, reality is, either will work. Iron does probably have a bit more maintenance to it vs lead having to keep the epoxy layer up. Other than that, they both work.

Marty

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