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  #11  
Old 10-26-2012
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Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates

The "soft" spots are the only real concern in the survey results. If there are known soft spots (rotten core), you can bet there are others that just aren't that bad - yet. I'm not familiar with Endeavors but generally speaking a known core repair would be a deal breaker for me unless the seller agreed to pay for it and have it done prior to purchase.
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2012
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Post Survey Cost Estimates

I would not assume the survey found all the problems - based on the issues/ general condition it's likely you will also have engine, transmission, or steering system issues crop up in the first year. Negotiate the price to account for both the known and unknown but probable.
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Old 10-26-2012
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Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates

Minnewaska, yes- I have the same concern. The boat was on the hard all this season, and apparently only taken out a couple of times last season. I have not seen the sails. The motor seems to run fine, although there were initial problems getting it started (fuel filter was clogged). These factors- and some other things that have come up point to a more laid-back maintenance style....

As to price; we're just under $21- which according to BoatUS value check and also BUC value- is about right for an average Great Lakes E32, however again based on the survey results- a bit high for this particular boat.

We can keep looking and put $30k into a nice clean Catalina 30 or similar (even less for an O'Day, Hunter)- or by this one and put $8-10k in it- and make it ours... That's the conundrum right now. She is a nice shippy sail boat and I like some other things about her (sea comfort, easy sail plan, decent appointments, roomy cockpit and side-decks).

The previous owner has offered to make some of the repairs -including the rudder. I'll factor that and some other things we discussed in the equation. I think it's one of those "judgement calls"- where there is no wrong or right decision...(which is in a way worse than a clear yes/no type decision...)-

... thanks to all again for your comments...!
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Old 10-26-2012
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Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates

find a better maintained used boat you are first time buyers
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Old 10-26-2012
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Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates

Quote:
Originally Posted by awahl View Post
Minnewaska, yes- I have the same concern. The boat was on the hard all this season, and apparently only taken out a couple of times last season. I have not seen the sails. The motor seems to run fine, although there were initial problems getting it started (fuel filter was clogged). These factors- and some other things that have come up point to a more laid-back maintenance style....

As to price; we're just under $21- which according to BoatUS value check and also BUC value- is about right for an average Great Lakes E32, however again based on the survey results- a bit high for this particular boat.

We can keep looking and put $30k into a nice clean Catalina 30 or similar (even less for an O'Day, Hunter)- or by this one and put $8-10k in it- and make it ours... That's the conundrum right now. She is a nice shippy sail boat and I like some other things about her (sea comfort, easy sail plan, decent appointments, roomy cockpit and side-decks).

The previous owner has offered to make some of the repairs -including the rudder. I'll factor that and some other things we discussed in the equation. I think it's one of those "judgement calls"- where there is no wrong or right decision...(which is in a way worse than a clear yes/no type decision...)-

... thanks to all again for your comments...!
I'm wondering what you offered and what the seller was asking before you got to 21K? I'm wondering if, since this is your first boat, you are aware of how much can be negotiated? BUC is a good place to start but not always a good place to end.

If you are not inclined to do work yourself, You might be better off negotiating a higher price for a newer boat. Having a yard work on a 30 year old boat might not be cost effective.

JMHO. YMMV.
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  #16  
Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates

A friend of mine bought an Endeavor 32' about 6 years ago moving up from a Hunter 25.5 with an outboard. They got their 1980 model for $10K at an estate 'fire sale' (definitely on the cheaper side).
There were similar issues as your survey has found. A 2' x 2' section of the starboard deck, forward of the shrouds was cracked and a little soft: delaminated, but not badly.
The Beckson port lights (windows) are plastic and became brittle and are not suitable for open water, in my opinion.
The bilge was not "eat off of" clean and the fuel tank is way down in the bilge. Look into all the spaces that you normally do not see (behind the engine, anchor locker, bilge, behind electrical panel etc.). I agree that boats of this age will have rather nasty looking wiring due to previous owner (PO) add-ons here and there.

If your engine was hard to start it may be that the fuel in the tank is a bit dirty and needs to be cleaned or filtered.

I really like the Endeavor 32' for doing overnights on. My friend sails on the Chesapeake and I try to join him as often as I can. The cabin is spacious, the boat sails decently for a shoal draft model and it is just a wonderful platform.

Which engine is your prospective E 32' endowed with?

It gets very expensive if you have to hire 'professionals' to do all the work you want done so the advice to consider a boat that is kept in better condition is not invalid. The E 32 is a good boat though and you should try your best to negotiate your price downwards. If that does not work at first then walk away and check back in 2 or 3 months. The current owner may have a change of heart and just want "out" from the yard bills.

My $.02.
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  #17  
Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates

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Originally Posted by awahl View Post
As to price; we're just under $21- .......

.....We can keep looking and put $30k into a nice clean Catalina 30 or similar (even less for an O'Day, Hunter)- or by this one and put $8-10k in it- and make it ours... ......
Unfortunately, this math just doesn't work. It can't. Repairs are never worth full value, so your theoretical 30k boat has to be far superior than the 21k+9k boat.

Or more likely, it will cost substantially more than folks are suggesting to get your $21k boat in the condition of the 30k. It has to, there are no exceptions.
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  #18  
Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates

Quote:
Originally Posted by awahl View Post
The previous owner has offered to make some of the repairs -including the rudder. I'll factor that and some other things we discussed in the equation.

I think it's one of those "judgement calls"- where there is no wrong or right decision...(which is in a way worse than a clear yes/no type decision...)-
Letting the previous owner make repairs now can look like a good deal but since the repairs are going to be made by someone who didn't take care of the boat when it was his how good will the repairs be.
When it was his boat the motivation was safety and pride of ownership. Now that he sees it as someone else's boat the only motivation is making the repair "look" good enough to get paid.

The judgement call thing is 100% right. If you are in love with the boat as it looks more shipy than the Catalina financial calculations will not prevail.

Now that you have benefited by some outside experience please post the details about the estimates you get and your final decision.
These details will help the next person in your shoes.
Good Luck.
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  #19  
Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates

Awahl - when budgeting for the purchase and ongoing care and maintenance of any 30+ year boat you need to realistically evaluate whether or not you will enjoy working on it yourself. Any older boat will need continuous ongoing maintenance and repairs. The survey you had done did not reveal everything that already needs to be fixed, much less the things that are likely to fail soon. And then there's the fact that the more you sail the more likely you are going to be to want to upgrade to better electronics, add a spinnaker or asymmetrical, put a new barbecue on the rail and connect it o the house propane system, change to LED lights, etc. etc.

From an economic standpoint, I would recommend that you get quotes from a reputable yard to have the work done that is noted on the survey and negotiate a reduction to the selling price to accomodate the repair costs. IMHO $21k is a great asking price for an E32 but unless the boat is absolutely pristine and has all new sails and electronics you should be able to buy the boat at significantly less than that.

I paid $16k for my Endeavour 32 five years ago and although it was in better than average condition at the time I have put another $15 k or so into it since then (pulled and re-wired the mast with all new LED lights, installed new compression plate under the mast support, replaced the standing and running rigging, installed new holding tank and sanitation hoses, new bilge pumps, new batteries and charger, new autopilot and chart plotter, new LED lihgts in the interior, etc.) some of it myself and some of it at a yard. The yard work is always at least twice as expensive as the original estimate, by the way. When I bought my boat there was a small section of delamination on the deck by one of the midships stanchions, and I removed and rebedded the stanchion to prevent the leadk but haven't fixed the delam problem yet.

So if you like doing boat projects on the weekends and have some tools and mechanical aptitude you will spend less money on the upkeep and repairs, but either way you are likely to spend more on the upkeep than you expect.

None of this is meant to scare you away from the boat - I love mine and would recommend an E32 to anyone looking for an older boat. Just be careful about the purchase to make sure you have enough cash left over to keep the rum supply filled when you're outsailing!
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  #20  
Old 10-27-2012
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Re: Post Survey Cost Estimates

Quote:
Originally Posted by awahl View Post
We'll see if some of these items are a deal breaker or not once we get some quotes back. ...
FWIW its worth, after you get your quotes, always double them in taking them into consideration for the boat valuation. I have found almost all yard expenses to end up twice the original estimates (hull painting excepted)...just the way it works out.
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